57 replies to this topic

[gjnii]

Lets compare LL's to LPL's
4Large Lasers
20 Tons
36 Damage (27 of that damage is in .75 seconds)
8.48 DPS at 300m
8.48 DPS at 450m
5.65 DPS at 600m
28 Alpha Heat
6.6 Heat/Sec
1.28 Damage/Heat


3LPL
21 Tons (WORSE)
31.8 Damage (WORSE) (31.8 is in .75 seconds, so slightly better)
7.95 DPS at 300m (WORSE)
3.975 DPS at 450m (WORSE)
0 DPS at 600m (WORSE)
25.5 Alpha Heat (WOR... wait better?
6.45 Heat/Sec ok.. slightly better.
1.24 Damage/Heat (WORSE) THERE WE GO

So only use LPL's if you want
extra tonnage
inferior damage
inferior DPS
inferior damage/heat efficiency
at Short Medium and Long range battles


For a tradeoff of:
3% less heat/second (and 12% less damage to go with it of course)
15% more damage if you cannot EVER keep a beam on a target for a whole 1s when they've closed to under 300m away from you.


it doesn't really improve as you scale down either, because at that point. you should just be taking ML's... which are 1/2 an LPL in damage, and full cycle time, (edit they do have slightly longer beam duration) for 1/7th THE TONNAGE.

EDIT: this post is has an inflammatory tone because I love LPL's. I love their pulsing fire animation, I love their blue color, I love their firing sound... I will miss them enormously.

Edited by gjnii, 12 June 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[NRP]

Yeah, even at 7.3 heat LPLs were still too hot to be useful in my experience. Jacking them up to 8.5 heat is going to make them far worse. The slight damage increase isn't going to offset this.

I guess PGI just doesn't want us using them?

[PEEFsmash]

Good post, I sure hope they don't increase LPL heat...

Edited by PEEFsmash, 12 June 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Deathlike]

If you're gonna make a "balance pass" at least attempt to make LPL OP first... since it was never the case (in open beta). Making it UP again puts it back into LBX territory... nothing special, and something better is already available.

[scJazz]

gjnii, on 12 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Lets compare LL's to LPL's
4Large Lasers
20 Tons
36 Damage (27 of that damage is in .75 seconds)
8.48 DPS at 300m
8.48 DPS at 450m
5.65 DPS at 600m
28 Alpha Heat
6.6 Heat/Sec
1.28 Damage/Heat


3LPL
21 Tons (WORSE)
31.8 Damage (WORSE) (31.8 is in .75 seconds, so slightly better)
7.95 DPS at 300m (WORSE)
3.975 DPS at 450m (WORSE)
0 DPS at 600m (WORSE)
25.5 Alpha Heat (WOR... wait better?
6.45 Heat/Sec ok.. slightly better.
1.24 Damage/Heat (WORSE) THERE WE GO

So only use LPL's if you want
extra tonnage
inferior damage
inferior DPS
inferior damage/heat efficiency
at Short Medium and Long range battles


For a tradeoff of:
3% less heat/second (and 12% less damage to go with it of course)
15% more damage if you cannot EVER keep a beam on a target for a whole 1s when they've closed to under 300m away from you.


it doesn't really improve as you scale down either, because at that point. you should just be taking ML's... which are 1/2 an LPL in damage, and full cycle time, (edit they do have slightly longer beam duration) for 1/7th THE TONNAGE.

EDIT: this post is has an inflammatory tone because I love LPL's. I love their pulsing fire animation, I love their blue color, I love their firing sound... I will miss them enormously.

The upcoming changes are not a "Balancing" pass. They are a "Normalization" pass. They are adjusting the values to follow the normal laser pattern of damage and heat. This goes into the next patch. They are then going to assess the effects and do a "Balancing" pass after that if needed. Which it will be... which is why they mention this fact.

[Ningyo]

But then what will I do with my Epic Pulse Boat

And yeah they are just making them equal then will balance them as a group later don't worry too much about this, it just means they are getting ready to make them not suck.

[SirLANsalot]

1. If your going to do a balance post, at least compare 3 to 3.....

2. LPL's will get even better now, heat will not be much of an issue if used correctly. This is ALWAYS the case with ANY mech and is why the "boating" issue exists now.

3. 3LPL is 30 damage in the arm for a Heavy Metal, vs the 27 from a longer duration 3 LL, after this normalization pass, the mech is just going to get even better.

4. LPL is MADE FOR SHORT RANGE, so do not compare range vs range in pulse vs normal, noob.

[Roland]

The critical failure of all the pulse lasers currently is that their hugely reduced range results if large reductions in effective damage, which translates into you paying tonnage penalties for less damage.

[FupDup]

SirLANsalot, on 12 June 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

4. LPL is MADE FOR SHORT RANGE, so do not compare range vs range in pulse vs normal, noob.

So is ERPPC. It also has the side-benefit of being the best long-range weapon available ATM.

Edited by FupDup, 12 June 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Matthew Ace]

TBH, at the very least, LPLs (or all PL for that matter), need their beam duration lowered, and then MPL/SPL heat buffed.

Something like 0.33-0.5 beam duration for LPL...

[Butane9000]

Are you mad because you'll have less dubstep in your mechwarrior online? Less WUBWUBWUB?

[Lefty Lucy]

SirLANsalot, on 12 June 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

1. If your going to do a balance post, at least compare 3 to 3.....

2. LPL's will get even better now, heat will not be much of an issue if used correctly. This is ALWAYS the case with ANY mech and is why the "boating" issue exists now.

3. 3LPL is 30 damage in the arm for a Heavy Metal, vs the 27 from a longer duration 3 LL, after this normalization pass, the mech is just going to get even better.

4. LPL is MADE FOR SHORT RANGE, so do not compare range vs range in pulse vs normal, noob.

Why would you compare 3 vs. 3 when they have different weight values?

Heat will definitely be an issue, especially for a short-ranged weapon where you can't easily evade the enemy to cool down.

While LPL builds will have a bigger alpha, they're also going to be considerably hotter, we have to wait to see if that's actually "better"

Ok, sure the LPL is meant for short range, but unless a short range weapon is significantly better than the longer-ranged counter part in some way there's no reason to take the short ranged weapon.

[Sephlock]

What about the other pulse lasers? How do you feel about those changes?

[FupDup]

Sephlock, on 12 June 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

What about the other pulse lasers? How do you feel about those changes?

The SPL buff sounds alright (will it be enough? Time will tell) and they really should have adjusted the MPL in some way.

[Deathlike]

MPL suffers a tad from heat (you're spending 1 more ton that could've been used for a DHS), so that's part of its problem.

[l3elthaz0r]

FupDup, on 12 June 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

So is ERPPC. It also has the side-benefit of being the best long-range weapon available ATM.

So extended range PPC is made for short range? That must mean I've been using my LRMs wrong all the time! Damn you confusing acronyms!

[FupDup]

l3elthaz0r, on 12 June 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

So extended range PPC is made for short range? That must mean I've been using my LRMs wrong all the time! Damn you confusing acronyms!

I was just being semi-sarcastic based on the current in-game stats and effectiveness. For one thing, even though it is "extended range" it lacks the minimum range of a regular PPC...odd. It's a jack of all trades and a master of everything.

[Elrail]

I just post it again there... more drama!

Edited by Elrail, 12 June 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[Zyllos]

I believe PGI might *crosses finger* make Pulse Lasers act different than they do now.

They will normalize them then convert them to having a RoF instead of a cooldown/beam duration. Think Machine Gun except in laser form.

Edited by Zyllos, 12 June 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Zyllos, on 12 June 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

I believe PGI might *crosses finger* make Pulse Lasers act different than they do now.

They will normalize them then convert them to having a RoF instead of a cooldown/beam duration. Think Machine Gun except in laser form.

You must really hate Pulse Lasers if you want them nerfed that hard.

Roland, on 12 June 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The critical failure of all the pulse lasers currently is that their hugely reduced range results if large reductions in effective damage, which translates into you paying tonnage penalties for less damage.

This. The pulse lasers pay for their increased damage output with increased heat and decreased range. The tonnage increase as well makes them pay too much for their benefits, generally.