64 replies to this topic

[Milt]

talimar1 has said everything ive been unable to convey about my feelings on this matter in his original and following posts. perhaps the only thing that would make all you groundhugging knuckledraggers happy is for jj to be totally removed from the game. hell while they are at it why not just remove every wpn except ml and hardpts so you could have a 20ml stalker to brawl with

[Milt]

Wreknar Temper, on 06 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Am I to understand you correctly that you are angry you have to relearn how to poptart snipe in the spider? Like everyone else piloting the other jump capable mechs? Sorry man, but you're not in any worse of a situation than everyone else so you can knock off the melodrama. The parabolic curve jump arc you're complaining about is the same for any mech that jumps in motion, you jump the same height regardless of standing still or in motion.

The shake is really not that bad, you just have to over jump in order to take a shot, big freaking deal.

you sir, have never piloted a spider and are showing your ignorance. if you stop moving in a spider you are dead, period. spiders fly about taking hard to make shots in midair regardless of screen shake. its nowhere near the same as a highlander or phract poptarting.

[Damocles69]

WWWWWWHHHAAAA!!!!!!!!! I want my cheat tart back! WWWWWWWHHHAAAA!!!!!

Poptarts reserve this and more

L2P NOOB, Adapt and ovecome
(Sucks to have this thrown back in your pop tart face doesn't it)

You reap what you sow

[Thanatos676]

Damocles69, on 06 June 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

WWWWWWHHHAAAA!!!!!!!!! I want my cheat tart back! WWWWWWWHHHAAAA!!!!!

Poptarts reserve this and more

L2P NOOB, Adapt and ovecome
(Sucks to have this thrown back in your pop tart face doesn't it)

You reap what you sow

Agree, the game with poptarts was beginning to be on the verge of unplayable. NOW it is fixed! and for those complaining of nausea from the screen shake..i mean come on really? i use JJ on my HGNs and the screen shake isnt bad, it should in fact be worse. If its making you sick then you should L2P a new mech.

[Talimar1]

Wrecknor, you have never played a spider. That is obvious. It is COMPLETELY different from playing the heavier poptarts. Spiders were never considered to be poptarts as they lack one essential feature:High damage alpha strike. To play a spider, one has to hit a ton of times. The spider is THE jump jet mech. If they nerf jumpjets to oblivion(HINT:They have, not just this patch, read the patch notes from the past) then there was no point in putting the spider in game at all. It could barely do damage before the patch, and those shots while flying through the air were the only things keeping the spider even playable. Hate the other poptarts all you want, but they are at the least playable. The spider was only in a very, very limited sense competitive and what they have now done to it is to make it completely unplayable. This is not good design, no matter how much you hate poptarts. They changed the wrong mechanic because you lot bitched about poptarts without realizing the implications of what you were suggesting. The real way to change poptarts is with heat and/or power limits for weapon discharges, you know, LIKE IN THE LORE. I really don't mind the shaking aspects other than the levels, but the completely random weapon offset that is unpredictable and not indicated is definitely a problem.

Also to those of you characterizing my post as wanting the poptarts back, it is obvious you did not read my post.

[El Bandito]

Talimar1, on 06 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I want to say again, I know how to aim and shoot after the apex of my jump, when JJs are released.There is a problem however. The spider doesn't jump straight up and down like poptarts generally do and moves much quicker. If piloted right, the spider generally fires in a much shallower parabolic curve. You can't fire post apex often because you will be blocked by an obstacle. Otherwise, you might as well not have JJs for a spider. I am pissed because this all means that I have to relearn everything about piloting my favorite mech, one in which I have accumulated nearly 800,000 xp in since january, none of it paid for all of it earned. I am so dedicated to it I fought my way to 8th place in the Light category in a time when streaks and ravens were OP as ****. Don't think for a second I don't know how to pilot my mech. Yes Poptarts were a problem. No, the Spider was not a problem. Yes PGI's response was heavy handed. No, randomness for the sake of randomness is not good. Yes shake can be compensated with skill. No, a random weapon offset of which there is no indication and is purely random is not a good, as it can't be compensated with skill. Yes, you can always fire post Jump Jets along your arc. But not on a spider while trying to let it have a modicum of usefulness in this game, a modicum that was already disputed. Do you see what I am getting at? THERE SHOULD BE NO USELESS MECHS IN GAME, AND NERFING JJs IN THE MANNER THEY HAVE HAS MADE THE SPIDER PERMANENTLY USELESS, NO HOPE OF REDEMPTION WITHOUT TAKING OUT THE COMPLETELY RANDOM WEAPON OFFSET.

Other JJ lights such as Jenner pilots are totally ok with the shake.

If I have to choose between Spiders and gameplay, I will choose gameplay. I'd rather never see another Spider again than having the poptarts return.

End of discussion.

Commandos are already useless mechs BTW, when compared to Jenners and Ravens, so don't feel alone.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[Talimar1]

Other JJ lights such as the jenner, you mean the only other jj light?

I'd rather they make gameplay decisions that actually make sense, than these broad sweeping changes that completely take out playstyles. This is supposed to be about role warfare, and presumes that every mech has a niche. The fact that they don't is bad game design.

I'd rather have gameplay with a use for all the mechs with poptarts as a small part of that(not the pre patch levels) Otherwise, I'd like to see pgi remove the spider and all the JJs from the game, not have them there masquerading as viable. If they don't want people to jump through the air and shoot, make it not an option like in tabletop.

[El Bandito]

Talimar1, on 07 June 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Other JJ lights such as the jenner, you mean the only other jj light? I'd rather they make gameplay decisions that actually make sense, than these broad sweeping changes that completely take out playstyles. This is supposed to be about role warfare, and presumes that every mech has a niche. The fact that they don't is bad game design. I'd rather have gameplay with a use for all the mechs with poptarts as a small part of that(not the pre patch levels) Otherwise, I'd like to see pgi remove the spider and all the JJs from the game, not have them there masquerading as viable. If they don't want people to jump through the air and shoot, make it not an option like in tabletop.

Bad game design? Lights have their niche--being real fast and hard to shoot at. Just some are better than the others.

Spider is a sub-par Light--hell, a sub-par mech. It is like Dragon of Heavies and Awesome of Assaults.

Every game has bad characters/champions/heroes/builds. Spiders are it in MWO. Just like Karma from League of Legends.

Don't try to find an excuse.

Most of all, everything is up to PGI; your puny opinion (or mine) are not even worth being looked at.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Talimar1]

Dude. If a light mech's role is to be fast and hard to shoot at, then where is the reward? Stop posting in this thread if you you have nothing more to add to the discussion. I really don't want to go down this road in this topic. You win, you've trolled me.

On topic, the JJ changes were way too far reaching and not thought out. They have admitted the values for the shake are wrong for lights and will be changed. It completely changes the way JJs function in this game. I am trying to explain that completely random weapon offset with no indication is a bad design choice. My first post details that. This is not a defend poptart thread. I mainly pilot a spider because it is my favorite mech. If I am saying the spider is broken, then you can damn well believe me. I don't even want to play this game anymore with it in this condition. It is just as broken as in the poptart days, only someone else(AKA AC20s) are now king. Having useless mechs in game is a waste of PGI's money. That alone makes it bad game design.

I'll ***** about this on the forums until they fix the JJs. That seems to be the only thing PGI listens to.

[El Bandito]

Talimar1, on 07 June 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Dude. If a light mech's role is to be fast and hard to shoot at, then where is the reward? Stop posting in this thread if you you have nothing more to add to the discussion. I really don't want to go down this road in this topic. You win, you've trolled me. On topic, the JJ changes were way too far reaching and not thought out. They have admitted the values for the shake are wrong for lights and will be changed. It completely changes the way JJs function in this game. I am trying to explain that completely random weapon offset with no indication is a bad design choice. My first post details that. This is not a defend poptart thread. I mainly pilot a spider because it is my favorite mech. If I am saying the spider is broken, then you can damn well believe me. I don't even want to play this game anymore with it in this condition. It is just as broken as in the poptart days, only someone else(AKA AC20s) are now king. Having useless mechs in game is a waste of PGI's money. That alone makes it bad game design. I'll ***** about this on the forums until they fix the JJs. That seems to be the only thing PGI listens to.

Random shot during ascending jump is the ONLY thing that stands between us and the return of poptarts. Rest are just graphics that can be beaten with drawing a freaking dot in your monitor.

Besides, I don't see any other Spider pilots crying over this nonsense like you. Clearly your piloting skill needs to be looked at.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 02:39 AM.
ad hominem

[Talimar1]

You obviously didn't read this thread. Milt is a spider pilot and complained in this very thread. The rest have probably given up on this piece of **** game.

[El Bandito]

Talimar1, on 07 June 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

You obviously didn't read this thread. Milt is a spider pilot and complained in this very thread. The rest have probably given up on this piece of **** game.

Hahaha, nice try. I still saw Spiders in many of my games today--the difference is they don't think it is such a big deal, and adjusted to the change instead of whining about it.

Also, doesn't it make you a no-life fool if you keep playing what you think is a piece of **** game?

Milt, on 06 June 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

talimar1 has said everything ive been unable to convey about my feelings on this matter in his original and following posts. perhaps the only thing that would make all you groundhugging knuckledraggers happy is for jj to be totally removed from the game. hell while they are at it why not just remove every wpn except ml and hardpts so you could have a 20ml stalker to brawl with

My Catapults and Cataphract 3D are doing just fine with the JJ change, thanks.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Wormrex]

Waited a long long time for this.

LEARN AND ADAPT!

That's right, you folks dumped this very same words on the forums before, now it is time to eat your own words.


Enough on the taunting part of things, let go of your space bar, and you can do all the same stuff you used to be able to do.

FYI I do have JJ capable mechs,

If anything it is the return of the boomjagers that runs my blood cold...

[Demuder]

I say remove the reticule completely from the screen when the JJs are being fired. Would that satisfy everyone's aversion to the random aiming of weapons ?

The designers have made clear that firing weapons accurately - and especially sniping - while having the JJs engaged is not something that was intended in the first place and the majority of the (forum) community agrees.

And still people make threads asking for this same thing. Apparently, taking candy from a baby is no easy feat.

[Inkarnus]

just stop whining like as if it is so enourmous bad
deal with it like a man
MAN UP
or
shut it
too much noise over nothing
here always these HARDCORE QQers

the only problem atm is the still overbuffed ppc
the rest seems decent fair balanced

Player: i dont like that candy cuz its red
PGI :here you go have a green one
Player : iiih this one sparkles too much
PGI :ok have a darker one
Player:iiih this one is too dark
etc.

Edited by Inkarnus, 07 June 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Talimar1]

I would much rather they completely removed the crosshairs while JJing than add in something that is completely random. Keep the screen shake too, and make it random like it is now. But don't add something that has no indication and cannot be accounted for in any way.

El Bandito, I have asked you to leave if you have nothing more to add to the discussion. I have adjusted playstyles on the spider but cannot play more than 2 or 3 games due to the nausea inducing effects. I want you to go and play about 50 games in a spider and see if you can stand it.

By the way, my erppc shots that missed widely were not from a long range, they were from about 300 meters. Against an atlas.

I take offence to you calling me a no life fool for trying to make this game better than a piece of ****. You are harassing me and I don't appreciate it. I want this game to be good. You have a self righteous hate because you won on the poptart side of things. I get it. Poptarts sucked to fight. I was right there with you on the hate, but I ADAPTED and learned how to counter the poptarts.

Telling me to adapt or learn to play is trolling. I have been in a spider since the day they came out. That is the reason I started playing. I have adapted to every change in the meta, all while playing my spider. Sure, it sucked at times but I adapted. This change however has made the spider unplayable, not merely noncompetitive, so I haven't been playing. I have been advocating for it instead. There were more far reaching effects for this JJ change than simply getting rid of the poptarts. I am detailing my experience with it. This change is adaptable to an extent, but makes the spider worse than a commando.

Learn2play El Bandito. I saw your vids in the streakapult. If that is a valid playstyle in your eyes, then a spider should be able to fly through the air and shoot a single erppc and at least hit the mech that is aimed at. In fact, there is a mech that does just that:The pack hunter. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pack_Hunter

I am not advocating for a return of Poptartwarrior Online. I just want my spider to be able to contribute to the battle as effectively as it can with its' very limited weaponry. Not **** face everywhere like I can in the Jager I bought and play with 2 ac20s(some of that may be elo cause I don't play heavies all that much, but still, AC20s are a little out of control. That is what happens when this kind of cycle takes place, and we have seen it with LRMs, Poptarts, etc)

[Milt]

bottomline on this "fix" is that it punished the light and medium pilots (which are not the problem) greater than it did the true offenders. lights and mediums needed this style to help reduce damage taken with mobility. heavy and assaults are not punished as much because they can at least take a bit of damage to line up a shot. lights can not. imo the spider is the most enjoyable mech to play pre nerf. now its a headache inducing piece of crap. the poptarting boaters are still around. this problem is not solved in the least. imo this nerf should be rolled back altogether and pgi should implement a true heat penalty to this game. really how much of a probelm would poptarting be if when you shut down it actually took 10sec to power up? or your screen blurred with high heat to simulate the modifier to hit you should have for high heat?

[Milt]

Wormrex, on 07 June 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Waited a long long time for this.

LEARN AND ADAPT!

That's right, you folks dumped this very same words on the forums before, now it is time to eat your own words.


Enough on the taunting part of things, let go of your space bar, and you can do all the same stuff you used to be able to do.

FYI I do have JJ capable mechs,

If anything it is the return of the boomjagers that runs my blood cold...

do not assume to lump me in with the nerf cryers, i have never called for a nerf in this game. im pissed off that my favorite mech has been made unplayable so that the boating poptarts could be mildly nerfed.

[SMDMadCow]

Milt, on 07 June 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

do not assume to lump me in with the nerf cryers, i have never called for a nerf in this game. im pissed off that my favorite mech has been made unplayable so that the boating poptarts could be mildly nerfed.

Perhaps you should learn to time your shots after you let off the jets so you have a clear sight picture and no random deviation, or when you land and use the jets for bugging out. It sounds like you are still trying to poptart and its not going to work, and thats a good thing for everybody. Adapt and figure out how to manipulate the situation to your advantage, thats where real skill comes in.

[StonedVet]

Can we stop with the BS whining about this change to JJ's please ... this is about the 15th thread on it and its getting old fast.