188 replies to this topic

[John MatriX82]

Merchant, on 07 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The 4J has 2 full 10 tube missile hardpoints. Probably better off to take 1LRM20 instead of the stock 2LRM10, less heat compared to less criticals while still using all 20 tubes plus I think AMS has it harder to counter enough missiles out of 1 LRM20 flight compared to 2 10s.
Also of all the Hunchbacks, it has been noted the 4J has the worst hunch of all making it easier to hit.
Cannot say any positives as I have not gotten to try the 4J I built in smurfy's lab focusing on 2LL + 1LRM20 letting it fight at long range never getting in close where it would be hit easy.

Speaking of LRMs, the 4J is nowhere near a Trench, the latter can go arount with a XL inside much easier, with more benefits thanks to the huge amount of speed gained (you can easily do 2xALRM15 with Xl 280/300 while in the 4J you're stuck to a 260) and in a much less suicidal way than the 4J.

It's still better than the 4G, but falls very behind Trenchs, Cents and the other HBKs.

And remind that the 4J has 20 tubes, not 10. Cents have 10 tubes, while trenches have a total of 30. There are "motivations" to why I own 4SP/4P/4H and not the 4J/4G

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

TehSBGX, on 07 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Nice job with the guide, but I think you may not know that the Cent-A Can't really make the best use of srm abuse anymore, one of it Quirks added a while ago was ten missle tubes.

This has been true since the day the Centurions were introduced to the game. You're forgetting to open your missile doors, dude.

[Mycrus]

80Bit, on 06 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Death’s Knell In the hands of a skilled light pilot, the Death’s Knell’s arms can become laser powered scalpels

TDK FTW!

[FiiFoo]

80Bit, on 06 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

The Hunchback 4J is an interesting mech. It is the only medium mech to have two full 20 tube missile hard points.

Merchant, on 07 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The 4J has 2 full 10 tube missile hardpoints.

Yep, 10 tubes is correct, which is sadly the final nail in the coffin for 4J because you can forget 2xLRM15+A or 1xLRM20+A.

[Ninthshadow]

I feel compelled to somehow defend the Commando, but I knew when I started it was an underdog of sorts. Between now and then nothing has changed to put it into a better position. To this day I do not have a convincing answer to "So, what's is it's the advantage over a Jenner?", besides that (at the time) you could not Elite a Jenner without a founder's pack. Anything else I have to say or ask really belongs in the Mech build guide section.

This is the sort of thing is great for a newer player looking for help to decide "What would be a good start if I want to play like this?". Taken as guidelines I doubt they would go far wrong reading this. Some of the advice is showing it's age a bit but nothing hit me as completely out of date yet.

A good pilot can make almost anything work, especially in something more forgiving than a hardcore competitive enviroment which the tier list is apparently catering for. However all chassis are going to naturally lean to excel in a paticular playstyle or role and that is what I think these reviews highlights.

[Mycrus]

Ninthshadow, on 08 June 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

"So, what's is it's the advantage over a Jenner?"

ARMS!

[marabou]

Stalker 3F

[Adridos]

Mycrus, on 08 June 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

ARMS!

Yeah, but you're trading away firepower, armor, speed and jump jets for them.

[Alex Wolfe]

Decent read, but some parts of it fail to account for the current meta, making it seem outdated.

- Hunchback SP used to be probably the most well-rounded medium, but with the missile nerf it's a rather ineffective brawler. HBK P is a decent sniper with 3PPC shoulder and XL255, so could be higher.

- Cataphract 3D and Highlanders' rating is too high, they are still serviceable, but hit hard with the poptart nerf.

- K2 is too high - it's still a good mech, but its ship had sailed when AC40 jaggers were introduced.

- A1 is too low. The infamous White Whale has been the scourge of MWO nearly as long as it existed. Be it artemis LRM boats, aimbot streak cat, or splat cat 2-shotting assaults up close, little could compare to it. With BAP hard countering ECM and SSRM hitting CT constantly, it's back in force.

- ALL Jaggers should be at least 3 stars because they can all pack AC40/high mounted twinguass snipe. No exceptions.

- ALL Stalkers should be at least 3 stars because they can all pack 4PPCs. No exceptions. With the death of poptarts, PPC Stalkers run this show now. 3F - the one with comparably gigantic torso twist - should get four and a half.

Otherwise, looks okay. Liked.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 08 June 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Alex Wolfe, on 08 June 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Decent read, but some parts of it fail to account for the current meta, making it seem outdated.

- Hunchback SP used to be probably the most well-rounded medium, but with the missile nerf it's a rather ineffective brawler. HBK P is a decent sniper with 3PPC shoulder and XL255, so could be higher.

- Cataphract 3D and Highlanders' rating is too high, they are still serviceable, but hit hard with the poptart nerf.

- K2 is too high - it's still a good mech, but its ship had sailed when AC40 jaggers were introduced.

- A1 is too low. The infamous White Whale has been the scourge of MWO nearly as long as it existed. Be it artemis LRM boats, aimbot streak cat, or splat cat 2-shotting assaults up close, little could compare to it. With BAP hard countering ECM and SSRM hitting CT constantly, it's back in force.

- ALL Jaggers should be at least 3 stars because they can all pack AC40/high mounted twinguass snipe. No exceptions.

- ALL Stalkers should be at least 3 stars because they can all pack 4PPCs. No exceptions. With the death of poptarts, PPC Stalkers run this show now. 3F - the one with comparably gigantic torso twist - should get four and a half.

Otherwise, looks okay. Liked.

just because its "good with the meta" doesn't make it the greatest thing ever created, k2 is good for more then just dual ac20s, and stalkers being able to mount 4 ppcs is not a reason to rate them as amazing either (certainly not saying they are bad, just saying your train of thought is), and the 3f is only "best" with direct fire weapons, again best with 4 ppcs doesn't mean a **** thing

Edited by Just wanna play, 08 June 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Mahws, on 06 June 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

They don't even benefit from their one advantage (large missile slots) as they don't have the tonnage to effectively use them.

3a comes with 2 srm6s........ commandos also have arms to put those missiles on while other lights mainly have to use torso mounted srms and their "better firepower" is courtesy of arguably inferior energy weapons

[Alex Wolfe]

Just wanna play, on 08 June 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

just because its "good with the meta" doesn't make it the greatest thing ever created, k2 is good for more then just dual ac20s, and stalkers being able to mount 4 ppcs is not a reason to rate them as amazing either (certainly not saying they are bad, just saying your train of thought is), and the 3f is only "best" with direct fire weapons, again best with 4 ppcs doesn't mean a **** thing

If we count mechs by their merits and not personal tastes, then "being able to most effectively mount the best weapon in the game" does mean a thing.

And not accounting for the current patch's state of the weapons is like giving Dragons 5 stars each because you used to be able to knock down assault mechs easily.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 08 June 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Blahberry]

Hey I like my AS7-K
Good write up.

[Raptor6789]

This is a very impressive guide of sorts, and I admire your effort and thought that went into this. That being said, I do not think this is a perfect or even near perfect guide, nor that it ever will be. That's simply because it is impossible to have an extensive knowledge of every mech chassis and variant and to objectively rate them. Can't be done by one person.

Instead, I think this devolves more into a comprehensive guide for new players looking to buy their first or second mech. I think you should strive to give a brief summary of each variant's capabilities, advantages, disadvantages, as well as possible weapon loadouts to allow new players to make informed decisions. I also think you might need more stars (at least five) in the rating system to further differentiate some mechs. I don't know if you've done this already, but another good idea may be to rate each mech relative to other mechs of the same role instead of in comparison to all other variants.

In the end, not everyone will have the same opinion as you, and there will inevitably be people complaining about your inaccurate and biased rating of mechs. Keep in mind that those people also do not have a full and comprehensive knowledge of each mech either. I think you should focus less on the rating and more on giving a description of each variant.

[Dawnstealer]

Brilliant post and a great write-up all around.

One thing about the Stalkers, which I pilot almost exclusively, the Misery and the 5M can both "zombie up" which is HUGE when you have those gigantic "shoot-me" side torsos, whose destruction will put you completely without weapons on most Stalkers.

Put a large laser or even a large pulse laser in there and suddenly the 5M climbs in the charts pretty quick and can keep in the fight even when all arms and side torsos have been blown off.

[FiiFoo]

Alex Wolfe, on 08 June 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

- K2 is too high - it's still a good mech, but its ship had sailed when AC40 jaggers were introduced.

I'd take K2 with 2xER PPC + Gauss over AC40 jager anyday. Close to same pinpoint alpha with same refire rate, weps high mounted too, better profile, much better range. AC40 jager can mount few med lasers giving it better damage up close though and of course cat has that cockpit...

Gausscat's ship sailed when DHS were introduced and didn't think much of AC40 cat even before jagers so no loss there.

[Just wanna play]

Dawnstealer, on 08 June 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Brilliant post and a great write-up all around.

One thing about the Stalkers, which I pilot almost exclusively, the Misery and the 5M can both "zombie up" which is HUGE when you have those gigantic "shoot-me" side torsos, whose destruction will put you completely without weapons on most Stalkers.

Put a large laser or even a large pulse laser in there and suddenly the 5M climbs in the charts pretty quick and can keep in the fight even when all arms and side torsos have been blown off.

he also didnt take zomby ability into account with the atlas k or D, which both can put in 2 medium, 2 medium pulses, large pulse, etc into the ct

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

FiiFoo, on 08 June 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

I'd take K2 with 2xER PPC + Gauss over AC40 jager anyday. Close to same pinpoint alpha with same refire rate, weps high mounted too, better profile, much better range. AC40 jager can mount few med lasers giving it better damage up close though and of course cat has that cockpit...

The Cataphract 3D does that loadout better anyway.

The 2ERPPC Gauss Cataphract doesn't eclipse 2AC20 builds because it isn't nearly as heat-efficient, so it has short-ranged problems.

[Just wanna play]

Zharot, on 08 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

The Cataphract 3D does that loadout better anyway.

The 2ERPPC Gauss Cataphract doesn't eclipse 2AC20 builds because it isn't nearly as heat-efficient, so it has short-ranged problems.

it isnt better in every way, only some ways, sigh meta minders these days.........

[Ninthshadow]

Mycrus, on 08 June 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

ARMS!

Adridos, on 08 June 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Yeah, but you're trading away firepower, armor, speed and jump jets for them.

Both true. While I definately appreciate arms on my mech I can't help but feel that you really pay for them if that's all there is to it. it seem too much to be truly justified on the Commando, unfortunately for my only mastered and favourite chassis.