188 replies to this topic

[FiiFoo]

Zharot, on 08 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

The Cataphract 3D does that loadout better anyway.

Cataphract has low weapons. Jump jets make up for it but after jump jet shake this is no longer so clear.

[Just wanna play]

FiiFoo, on 08 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Cataphract has low weapons. Jump jets make up for it but after jump jet shake this is no longer so clear.

and even before jj shake it had to expose more of it self to use arm mounted weapons anyway, also had to use up tonnage on jjs to get same effect as using arms, this stuff is very debatable for sure, imo frankly the cataphract is pretty clearly designed to be a brawler but thats just me

i know for sure the 3D was made to be versatile and the designers wanted it to be able to take on an assault mech, of course setting it u with 2 er ppcs and a guass kind of loses sight of that ideology

[Cubivorre]

This comment made in no way to offend 80bit(who makes good posts):

Uuuuuuugh, dear god, please no more mech tier lists... We already have one wackjob tryhard that made one and it was a sh!tstorm - we don't need any more. D:

[heleqin]

Cubivorre, on 08 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

This comment made in no way to offend 80bit(who makes good posts):

Uuuuuuugh, dear god, please no more mech tier lists... We already have one wackjob tryhard that made one and it was a sh!tstorm - we don't need any more. D:

this one is a lot better though, there's detail and its not just try-hard competitive min/maxing. could use some updates for recent mechanic changes, but its pretty good if you take the time to read it all the way through.

[80Bit]

Thanks for all the likes and lively discussion everyone.

One think I want to reiterate. While meta and weapon balance are very much a factor in any evaluation of mechs, I tried to keep a mindset of how mechs will/would perform when main weapons are fairly balanced.

For example much of this guide was written when LRMs were totally broken and useless. But I did not go and give all LRM boat mechs a bad rating, that would make this guide pretty useless.

Similarly, I am not going to make knee jerk changes to ratings as soon as game changes happen.

[Mycrus]

At the point where you can hit enemy side torso with fully extended arms at full speed, above won't count.

Commando's are light strike mechs, with only the ecm version that could be considered as a scout.

While JJ nurf did curb poptarts, it also had the effect of slightly nurfing the signature jenner jump turn shots.

I like jenners and have mastered them too

[Solis Obscuri]

I would suggest reconsidering the roles of the 4G and 8T as brawlers. Both are extremely effective when played correctly - just remember to upgrade your engine.

[Lyoto Machida]

Great read...learned some things about potential purchases that I previously had no idea about.

[Mahws]

Just wanna play, on 08 June 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

3a comes with 2 srm6s........ commandos also have arms to put those missiles on while other lights mainly have to use torso mounted srms and their "better firepower" is courtesy of arguably inferior energy weapons

Right, except the 3A struggles to fit said two SRM6 when using a XL210, double heatsinks, full armor and with energy weapons. With only a tonne of ammo.

Advantages the Jenner-D has:
33% increase in armor.
Jumpjets.
Twice as many energy hardpoints.
Gains full amount of DHS buff from in engine.
Doesn't lose six extra slots to external DHS.
Free tonnage for BAP/Extra Ammo/Extra Heatsinks after all weapons and armor maxed.

Advantages the Commando-A has:
50% increase in SRMs. (Though lower overall potential match damage from less tonnage/space for ammo)
One of its SRM6 is on an arm.
Arm energy weapons have horizontal arm twist. (At the expense of half the firepower).

Arm horizontal twist is nice, but it's no where near as valuable on a light mech. It's important for an atlas that takes time to twist its torso, a Jenner or Raven twists almost as fast as the Commando can move its arms.

As for 'arguably inferior energy weapons', well the entirety of the community seems to disagree with you on that one. For a while the SRM was king, but that was a while ago. They're not terrible now, but certainly not worth taking the Commando's massive handicaps for a 50% increase in SRM damage gimped by low ammo, low speed, low armor or low energy weapon back up.

Edited by Mahws, 08 June 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Got to the first mech, and seen you gave the com1b a one star rating... stopped reading there

[TheCrazySteve]

Pardon the wall of text formatting the forum is not cooperating right now. Anyways, this isn't meant to change your mind on the ratings you made, you've done some excellent work 80bit, this is more of a you may have overlooked a fun build. Anyways you gave the cataphract 4x one star, which is understandable, most of what it can do is done by either the jager or the illya better, but there is one build the 4x can pull off that no other mech can, dual guass with a decent standard engine, it is abnormal for me to finish a match with both arms still on the mech and is a ton of fun! http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78111dff989cc0d

Edited by TheCrazySteve, 08 June 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Great write up! I agee with at least 90% of it, so you've definately got some nice comments about the mechs

[White Bear 84]

TheCrazySteve, on 08 June 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Pardon the wall of text formatting the forum is not cooperating right now. Anyways, this isn't meant to change your mind on the ratings you made, you've done some excellent work 80bit, this is more of a you may have overlooked a fun build. Anyways you gave the cataphract 4x one star, which is understandable, most of what it can do is done by either the jager or the illya better, but there is one build the 4x can pull off that no other mech can, dual guass with a decent standard engine, it is abnormal for me to finish a match with both arms still on the mech and is a ton of fun! http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78111dff989cc0d

I just bought the 4X. I love gauss. You have inspired me good sir.

Pretty much the same as my dual gauss jager - with the exception that my jager runs an XL and not forgetting the high gun location. Only changes i would suggest is double heat sinks and your cooling is up to 77% from 39%! You only need 4 tonnes of ammo at the best of times, could get away with three.

Since the lasers are in the torso i would drop one and put in a streak with one tonne ammo - since these weapons really are a last resort defense in particular against lights - that said with gauss in arms you should be able to handle lights with your primary no problem. Drop engine to 245 (only losing 2kph) and up your armor in legs and max your cockpit out - dont forget splash damage...

Edited by White Bear 84, 08 June 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Wired]

I like that you call the JR7-D the jetfighter of the mechs. Ever since I started playing in closed beta, Ive had Kenny Loggins playing in the back of my head whenever I piloted a jenner.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

FiiFoo, on 08 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Cataphract has low weapons. Jump jets make up for it but after jump jet shake this is no longer so clear.

The Cataphract has two energy mounts high on the torso, just like the K2's arm energy weapons. All of the heavies can peeksnipe effectively (except the 4X and a couple of the Dragons, but who buys those shitboxes?).

MonkeyCheese, on 08 June 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Got to the first mech, and seen you gave the com1b a one star rating... stopped reading there

The Commandos are seriously the worst mechs in the game.

80Bit, on 08 June 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Thanks for all the likes and lively discussion everyone.

One think I want to reiterate. While meta and weapon balance are very much a factor in any evaluation of mechs, I tried to keep a mindset of how mechs will/would perform when main weapons are fairly balanced.

So in an imaginary fairy-tale version of MWO, this thread will be useful. Until then, it's made almost entirely of misinformation.

[TheCrazySteve]

White Bear 84, on 08 June 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I just bought the 4X. I love gauss. You have inspired me good sir.

Pretty much the same as my dual gauss jager - with the exception that my jager runs an XL and not forgetting the high gun location. Only changes i would suggest is double heat sinks and your cooling is up to 77% from 39%! You only need 4 tonnes of ammo at the best of times, could get away with three.

Since the lasers are in the torso i would drop one and put in a streak with one tonne ammo - since these weapons really are a last resort defense in particular against lights - that said with gauss in arms you should be able to handle lights with your primary no problem. Drop engine to 245 (only losing 2kph) and up your armor in legs and max your cockpit out - dont forget splash damage...

I do in fact have dual heatsinks, and literally you can stand in the volcano firing all day without any heat problems, it is kind of amazing.

As for the suggested changes, the idea of dropping lasers for the streak is very interesting I will have to try that.

The engine however can't be downsized unless I give up ferro fiberious. By going to a 245 I would need 3 slots for a dual heatsink, which I unfortunately don't have

[Just wanna play]

TheCrazySteve, on 09 June 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

I do in fact have dual heatsinks, and literally you can stand in the volcano firing all day without any heat problems, it is kind of amazing.

As for the suggested changes, the idea of dropping lasers for the streak is very interesting I will have to try that.

The engine however can't be downsized unless I give up ferro fiberious. By going to a 245 I would need 3 slots for a dual heatsink, which I unfortunately don't have

the guass rifles alone have 160% heat eff so there is no need for more cooling
he would be putting more of that ammo with the guass rifles if he wasnt a meta minder
(some thing like this)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...855d79867cf4206

Zharot, on 09 June 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

(except the 4X and a couple of the Dragons, but who buys those shitboxes?).
The Commandos are seriously the worst mechs in the game.

thats an opinion, the 4x for one has the ability to put ballistics on both arm while having actual arms so its the only mech in game that can do so and its also a cataphract which is a very good design in of itself
dragons arent bad either, just high mobility heavies that have the speed to perform different jobs but can still bully mediums

commandos are great, missile launchers on arms (plenty of tubes as well), they are cheap, energy weapons on arms as well, etc.

[Liquid Leopard]

80Bit, I gave you "like" for lots of effort.
Later on I'll go back and read it.

[Jonathan Paine]

Excellent write up! Based on more than five thousand matches and having mastered most mech types, I'd say you got most of them spot on.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Just wanna play, on 09 June 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

thats an opinion, the 4x for one has the ability to put ballistics on both arm while having actual arms so its the only mech in game that can do so

Ilya Muromets.