597 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Diety, that is really hard to follow-

Though it isn't your fault, would you be willing to edit it? (Since formatting quotes seem to be garbage, perhaps Bold the quotes and leave your responses regular?)

[Volthorne]

Livewyr, on 12 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Diety, that is really hard to follow-

Though it isn't your fault, would you be willing to edit it? (Since formatting quotes seem to be garbage, perhaps Bold the quotes and leave your responses regular?)

There isn't even a problem with his post, per se. No missing tags. No mis-placed braces. Nothing. It's like the forum just decided it had had enough of his **** and didn't want to work.

[Chavette]

Petroshka, on 12 June 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

my sig says it all.

Your sig says you were badmouthing someone who could beat you one handed.

Wouldn't be so proud of that, but thats just me.

[Ralgas]

Chavette, on 12 June 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Your sig says you were badmouthing someone who could beat you one handed.

Wouldn't be so proud of that, but thats just me.

Hint- It isn't him, but he also doesn't want it redacted for name and shame. Follow pg 27 a lil more in depth

[Huntsman]

xDeityx, on 12 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

I appreciate it, but truth be told I'm actually really not that good of a player. I stood out a bit in MWLL because our community was so small (and therefore our talent pool) but in MWO I would be very surprised even if I started playing seriously that I would be among the top 1%. I'm 30 years old which is pretty much retirement age for competitive gamers, a 19-year-old will have too much of an advantage on me when it comes to reaction time (although it would be worse if this was a more reactionary FPS like Quake or CS) and just time to spend on the game in general since I've got two kids a wife and a job.

I've been playing with a random assortment of guys who were in KoS in MWLL and just other MWLLers in general, we hang out in the Knights channel on the NGNG Outreach server, feel free to pop in. We don't strictly play to win right now because the state of the game is so miserable, we pretty much just farm c-bills and try to come up with builds that are fun to play so we stay interested and don't burn out by spamming PPC Highlanders. Although I'm really hoping the state of the game improves considerably to the point where it would actually be worth it to devote the time to be competitive.

I think it's fair to say that being a top player doesn't require you to be inside the top 1%. I couldn't look myself in the eye and claim that, even though I'm at the top of the scoreboard most of the time. I would be surprised if I wasn't in the top 3%-4% however. At age 37, my reflexes have also suffered in FPS games. However I feel that MWO rewards just the opposite skillset. Twitchiness is a bad thing. have you ever watched in deathcam as a panicked player's aim causes him to spread a LL beam all over an enemy mech? It's painful to watch. Mechwarrior games rewards a mannerism that's calm and cool headed. It's not who shoots first, but who shoots most accurately, and who can keep shooting acurately and making good decisions under pressure. For this reason I continue to excel in mechs, whereas I struggle to even keep a positive KDR in the Battlefield series of games. I tell myself that the new fangled BF games these kids play ain't my BF1942...and there's alot of truth in that...but I also don't want to hurl my monitor through a closed window out of frustration either.

Thanks for the invite xDietyx. I'll try to stop by. I'm in BWC right now. It's the most highly organized team I've ever participated in, and that's by a long shot. The best thing is that there are several hundred players so no matter what hour of the day you log in, there's always someone to drop with...and I mean ANY hour of the day.

[HiplyRustic]

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

In general, I agree with most of your points ... I just see some things in a different way ... if you think I'm taking something out of context to snipe at it, that's not my intent ... since noone outside of PGI/IGP has all the data, it's all just observation and speculation ...

Eldragon, on 12 June 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

2 - The need for players to grind out unlocks in bad mechs. Some mechs are better than others; being forced into playing bad mechs handicaps a player, and the Elo system does not account for that.

It takes me ~30 matches to grind the Basics up in a new mech ... there will be some wins and some losses, but they generally even out. Only a brand new player is "forced" to play bad mechs ... using GXP (converted or otherwise) to max out Basics is always an option.

If everyone does it, is it really a penalty?

Quote

3 - The small player base does not ensure a well populated bell curve of Elo scores at all times of day. Logging in during the "prime time" for different timezones offers a very different play experience.

And different times of day ... morning / afternoon / evening / late night (my time) is generally very different ... but you're not going to be able to solve the small player base problem ... hopefully PGI/IGP will give us a game that we want our friends to play.

Quote

4 - The matchmaker not taking into account tonnage disparities. This is further compounded with the Matchmaker when calculating the new Elo upon match completion.

5 - Wild balance swings between patches. Elo works on the assumption that every match plays by the same rules. If I play LRMs exclusively during LRMageddon, and rack up a ton of wins, that artifically inflates my Elo.

Over the long term (months of game time, thousands of games), this affects everyone ... if it happens to everyone, is it a penalty?

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The above issues are not a problem when the Elo scores are kept private and used as a means to assist the matchmaker, since it only needs to concern itself with currently active players.

concur.

Quote

I do think Elo scores are useful for investigating game balance issues, it is not totally worthless. When applied to groups of players, it is going to be reasonably accurate representation of skill, but it would not be an accurate representation of skill at the individual player level.

For example, I would LOVE to do some data-mining to find out what mechs and weapons the top 10% of Elo players are using, and compare that to the bottom 10%.

Concur, in general ... more tranparency on the "big picture" statistics and trends would be very interesting.

[Hauser]

Eldragon, on 12 June 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

PGI's Elo implementation is not an indicator of skill, but rather a clumsy mechanism for the matchmaker to makes games harder for the veteran players, and easier for the newbies (Note that I did not say: fair, or balanced. Only Harder/Eaiser). There are quite simply, too many problems with MWO for Elo to be trusted as a skill indicator, even if that was the intent.

Dude... At least educate yourself on the basics.

In principle, there is is nothing wrong with matching veterans against veterans and green players and against green players. The current implementation doesn't seem to provide the desired results, that is a different problem. Right now this can be attributed to a low player density and four-man groups making it hard for the matchmaker to get a good match.

Edited by Hauser, 12 June 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Petroshka, on 12 June 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

my sig says it all.

I should have known that you anti-competitive folks would take that post out of context, and not include the fact that I was responding to a troll with a sarcastic troll of my own.
Your out-of context quote sure says something.
That something is about you.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 12 June 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[Fabe]

I have no problems with competition I just don't want to be forced into a high stakes professional e-"sport" league where winning is more important then having fun.

[PEEFsmash]

Fabe, on 12 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I have no problems with competition I just don't want to be forced into a high stakes professional e-"sport" league where winning is more important then having fun.

You won't be forced into a high stakes league. You can play as casually as you want to, but the game should be skill based, and the cream should rise. Nobody is asking you to join tournaments.

[Fabe]

PEEFsmash, on 12 June 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

You won't be forced into a high stakes league. You can play as casually as you want to, but the game should be skill based, and the cream should rise. Nobody is asking you to join tournaments.

OK cool, it's just I get the impression that is what some people want the game to become.

Edited by Fabe, 12 June 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Sephlock]

Fabe, on 12 June 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

OK cool, it's just I get the impression that is what some people want the game to become.

Nah, that's just if you want anything you ever say to be taken seriously.

[PEEFsmash]

Fabe, on 12 June 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

OK cool, it's just I get the impression that is what some people want the game to become.

What do they want? They want you, Fabe, to become an esport professional, and they won't stop until you are one?

I want this game to be an e-sport. I want there to be high-stakes tournaments, and personally winning=fun for me. The game should be built to accommodate this sort of play, but I don't think that anyone wants 100% of people to play that seriously unless they want to.

[Fabe]

Sephlock, on 12 June 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Nah, that's just if you want anything you ever say to be taken seriously.

I think my poor stats would prevent the uber competitive crowd from taking any thing I say seriously no matter what.

[PEEFsmash]

Fabe, on 12 June 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

I think my poor stats would prevent the uber competitive crowd from taking any thing I say seriously no matter what.

There are plenty of things that players with poor stats can contribute (hard data on damage/hit detection, player experience feedback, etc.) However, low-level players should not be changing balance when their own play is what needs improved, and improving their own play will help them overcome those things that they see as imbalanced.

If you are willing to admit that you are a lower level player, and you want your voice to be heard in balance, the first question you should ask is, "I'm having trouble with X. Does anyone have advice?"

[Fabe]

PEEFsmash, on 12 June 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

What do they want? They want you, Fabe, to become an esport professional, and they won't stop until you are one?

I want this game to be an e-sport. I want there to be high-stakes tournaments, and personally winning=fun for me. The game should be built to accommodate this sort of play, but I don't think that anyone wants 100% of people to play that seriously unless they want to.

well tough **** for you and them because that will not happen, I'm not here to become a "pro" player I'm just here to try and have a good time win or lose. That might make me a loser in your eyes but I don't care ,mock be for being anti fun all you want ,if you life is so empty you need a video game to make it meaningful thats your problem not mine. See those horrabad stats? I don't really care about them.sure if I could get better that would be nice but I will not feel bad about myself if they never change or go down.

[PEEFsmash]

Fabe, on 12 June 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

well tough **** for you and them because that will not happen, I'm not here to become a "pro" player I'm just here to try and have a good time win or lose. That might make me a loser in your eyes but I don't care ,mock be for being anti fun all you want ,if you life is so empty you need a video game to make it meaningful thats your problem not mine. See those horrabad stats? I don't really care about them.sure if I could get better that would be nice but I will not feel bad about myself if they never change or go down.

Okay, well you don't have to get any better if you don't want to. You don't have to compete if you don't want to, nobody is making you.

However, your balance input based merely on in-game experience is not as relevant as those who put in thousands of games at the highest level. I hope you can understand that. If a low level player says that light mechs are overpowered because you personally can't hit them, she would not be speaking about a general problem with the balance of the game, she would be talking about what amounts to personal issues that she could fix via her own play.

I don't look down on low-level players who are comfortable with where they are and happy with their own level of play. However, my frustration comes to a head when low-level players beg for balance changes when there is no real problem in the first place, outside of her own play (or when she claims there is no problem at all, but there is only no problem for her because she isn't matched against good opponents.)

Edited by PEEFsmash, 12 June 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

People don't like being told they're bad.

Its a sad reality of online gaming. I would prefer to know how bad I am at this game. That way I could get more inspiration to get better and ultimately be better.

[Volthorne]

PEEFsmash, on 12 June 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

I should have known that you anti-competitive folks would take that post out of context, and not include the fact that I was responding to a troll with a sarcastic troll of my own.
Your out-of context quote sure says something.
That something is about you.

Excuse me? He's anti-competitive just because he doesn't want public Elo? Right, whatever you say, bud. Ima grab this for later use, because it's just too funny.

Also I played with Beefhands today. From what I saw, he's a mediocre player.