87 replies to this topic

[Gorgarath]

Haradim, on 07 June 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Another thing to keep in mind, is that "tank classes" always sacrifice offensive capability as a tradeoff for their ability to absorb damage.

Are you prepared to accept a loss of hardpoints and hardpoint optimization in exchange for the ability to take enough damage for a perceptible difference to be made? You point to lights as having high effective damage absorption (which is only as effective as the enemy's lack of aim), but no light mech can carry what an Atlas can be armed with.

tank class or not the op is right Atlas dies way to fast and who gives a flying F if a scout can carry more or less than an atlas? the whole post is about how things work in game it doestn matter if you have a huge gun if you dont hit antying with it scouts never get hit and they have crappy 2 lazers that they can consistantly hit with making their end game dmaage statistics huge

[MustrumRidcully]

Aphoticus, on 07 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Doesn't torso twisting immitate the randomness seen in TT a little.

When I am in the zone with my Atlas, and I torso twist, expose my back, use terrain to allow my legs to get hit because I sudden lurched upwards, makes the effect seem like they are missing my CT.

You are not wrong, but the Atlas is also one of the mechs that requires a mixed weapon loadout usually, which forces you to fire your weapons seperately and spend more time facing the enemy - or losing your damage output, which doesn't help you either - you might last longer, but so does your enemy.

If the Atlas could carry Dual AC/20 like my Jagermech, I might add 2 Medium Lasers or even Large Lasers and be pretty good offensively and defensively. But if I have to mix 2 Medium or Large LAsers, 1 AC/20 and 1 array of SRMs... The lasers alone require 1 second of my attention, and the cooldown of all weapons is about 4 seconds - so if I haven't fired my AC/20 and my SRMs in the next 3 seconds after I fired my Lasers, the lasers come up again, and I am wasting my damage potential and thus effectively part of the advantage my tonnage was to give me.

[Haradim]

Gorgarath, on 07 June 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

tank class or not the op is right Atlas dies way to fast and who gives a flying F if a scout can carry more or less than an atlas? the whole post is about how things work in game it doestn matter if you have a huge gun if you dont hit antying with it scouts never get hit and they have crappy 2 lazers that they can consistantly hit with making their end game dmaage statistics huge

If you want an Atlas variant to survive for a meaningful amount of time against multiple enemies blasting away with their optimized builds with pinpoint aiming - something comparable to what a light might manage in very good circumstances via speed - you are looking at an Atlas with enormous armor values... and the weapons of a Spider or Commando. That odd instance of against-all-odds survivability comes at a considerable price.

[Gorgarath]

Haradim, on 07 June 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

If you want an Atlas variant to survive for a meaningful amount of time against multiple enemies blasting away with their optimized builds with pinpoint aiming - something comparable to what a light might manage in very good circumstances via speed - you are looking at an Atlas with enormous armor values... and the weapons of a Spider or Commando. That odd instance of against-all-odds survivability comes at a considerable price.

oh ok but its ok for a jagger mech to have greater dps than an atlas a smaller frame more speed and take more hits because of the previous 2 things or a scout, or evne a dragon yea ok i guess one justifies the other there are no problems here ur right of course

[VonRunnegen]

Ehh.... lights that are taking continuous fire are dead lights. Spiders are heard to hit and so can survive a long time - but have very little firepower. Its a tradeoff. If your Atlas is too slow and firepower doesn't matter then ditch some guns and get a bigger engine, or try another class. If you've always been an Atlas pilot then you know very, very little of the matchup between the different mechs.

Atlas' are great mechs. They have to engage carefully same as anyone. Yes, lights are a pain for them, as they are meant to be. I have highest K/Ds on one Atlas variant and one scout variant. *shrug* dunno if that shows anything. The Atlas is streets ahead in damage/game, the light does better in win ration.

When I see a lone assault in my scout I'm happy, and go kill them. When I see a lone assault in my heavy I stay back until I can get support. Its not that the light is better - its that light vs. assault favours the light. I'll happily fight lights in my heavy though - kinda a weird rock-paper-scissors thing.

[LordBraxton]

4 medium lasers are enough to leg a spider in about 20 seconds of combat

spiders are only a threat when there are other heavier enemies around shooting you

because everyone will ignore the spider till the end

Edited by LordBraxton, 07 June 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[HarmAssassin]

One of my favorite mechs is an Atlas, when I play it I am usually the last man standing on my team. It doesn't do nearly as much damage as many other Assaults I see (or own), but I get more kills with it.

Just wish they'd bring brawling back into the game (by fixing SRMs), then I'd love my Atlas even more - but it certainly works for me.

[soarra]

your not invincible. stop running in ahead of everyone and use your team for support.

[Ansel]

Torso Twisting does nothing against a compentent player.

They just shoot you in the crotch for 100% CT destruction no matter how much you twist your torso.

[Raghnall]

I play mostly Atlas, and I have to agree with your OP.

I don't play like I am an assault in the battletech universe. If you lead a charge across open ground, you are focused and downed fairly easily. You can not escape a bad situation like being caught out in the open, your movement is highly commitable. If your team moves up with you, great. But if you lead and they decide to reverse or go "squirrel" on another light mech you are toast. In a PUG you better just to look out for your own skin first and offer support second.

My preferred build is nearly 75% medium or long range with a few short range defensive arments for pesky light mechs. I've grouped my weapons into left / right arm bindings to enable from cover and corner shooting to minimise my hitbox exposure. I tend to follow the herd more then lead it. I also don't stick myself right in the front of the battle because that is quck way to die.

Edited by Raghnall, 07 June 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[oldradagast]

The Atlas is the most durable mech in the game and one of the most powerful - the Stalker may have an edge now only because of the power of boating sniper weapons and the current weak state of SRM's.

That being said, it still can be reduced to a pile of scrap like anything else if it is caught slowly walking around in the open.

The Atlas may be the game's best "tank" but all the tanks have weapons meant to blast other tanks, so you're no god while playing it. IMHO, this is a good thing - the game should not have "god mode" and there shouldn't be any mech so powerful that you can basically laugh off or ignore your opponents.

The Atlas is the best at what it does, but even it is not perfect, which is also a good thing - we don't want a game full of nothing but Atlas matches.

[senaiboy]

I've not used any Assault mech before but I have played more than 1500 matches since Closed Beta.

In my anecdotal experience, Atlas do last longer than the other Assault mechs. But I agree about Atlas being a bullet magnet, it's because an Atlas is usually at the head of a charge and also it moves the slowest, hence the easiest target to shoot at. Stalkers and Highlanders tend to hide behind cover and snipe/fire LRMs.

The issue is not because an Atlas does not have enough armor, but it's because of the nature of PUGs. No one knows if the Atlas pilot is good or not, and if he's charging at the enemy most PUG-ers will hesitate to follow him. The end result is the Atlas being the first target of focus fire and it goes down quickly. An Atlas is tough, but it's not sensible to think it can soak the firepower of a lance of mechs weighing a few times its weight in total. The workaround is take command of your PUG team and call out some tactics, or at least tell them if you're going to lead a charge. It's worth a try.

That said, much as I will go up against a Stalker/Highlander 1v1 in my Catapult/Jager, I won't do the same to an Atlas.

Edited by senaiboy, 07 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Prezimonto]

The only build I don't actually fear meeting an atlas face to face is an AC20 2x. At longer ranges the atlas is ignorable/dodgeable because he's slow, but up close and personal everything but that double AC20 build is chancy to poor odds to go toe to toe. Even a light mech, you have to be exceptional or in a very strong position to kite an atlas to death. As has been stated, when SRM's were OP my A1 was in the same category, but no longer.

Maybe, that's a good way to look at something broken in the game.... What load out makes any kind of atlas not scary? Currently I think it's anything that does pin-point alphas for 40 damage 3 times without over heating. So ac20 x2, maybe double gauss (at long range), quad PPC in a big enough mech (Stalker) for the heat sinks, and maybe 4xLPL... though that's so close and so hot, and not pin-point... so maybe not. 5x LL (stalker).

[ArmandTulsen]

I'm an Atlas pilot and I've noticed that in the majority of games if I don't die first or second, I don't die at all and we win.One great thing about the Atlas is that the mech isn't suited for boating, which means you have to have an all-around loadout, which in turn means that you're more versatile in the long run.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 07 June 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[Rhent]

Nauht, on 06 June 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

As someone who does not own one single assault but everything else, I can say that the Atlas is a pita to take down in any if the mechs I own. They dont hit as hard as a Stalker but they keep on trucking longer.

I take down Stalkers first just cos they can lay the hurt down more and leave the Atlas last cos they can last longer.
If they made the Atlas have the same weapons capability of the Stalker, then that's a mech to be truly feared and maybe even a little OP.

The Atlas, IMO, does last longer on average than any other mech.

Wrong on the Atlas DPS by a long shot. RS = 1 Gauss + 2 PPC + 2 ERPPC on 100 ton mech, that beats ANY stalker build for DPS.

[Sephlock]

Rhent, on 07 June 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Wrong on the Atlas DPS by a long shot. RS = 1 Gauss + 2 PPC + 2 ERPPC on 100 ton mech, that beats ANY stalker build for DPS.

What about the Misery ? Granted, it has less tonnage to work with...

[Rhent]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

What about the Misery ? Granted, it has less tonnage to work with...

You can't run that build in a Misery and be as heat efficient or move as fast as the Atlas. I'm running a Misery w/ 1 Gauss, 1 ERPC, 2 PPC and 17 DHS, whereas I could run an RS with the same load out, but it moves 8 KPH faster w/ 1 more heat sink, add on 1 SL, you have more armor AND you can actually torso turn and track lights with your arms.

People stating the Atlas doesn't have the punch as a Stalker, isn't true. It depends on the chassis and build you choose. The RS has just as much punch as any Sniper Stalker + AC capability.

[Soy]

Ansel, on 07 June 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Torso Twisting does nothing against a compentent player.

They just shoot you in the crotch for 100% CT destruction no matter how much you twist your torso.

lol @ that

Edited by Soy, 07 June 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[Sephlock]

For Steel, jagermechs are bigger bullet magnets than Atlases, though...

[Demuder]

senaiboy, on 07 June 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

In my anecdotal experience, Atlas do last longer than the other Assault mechs. But I agree about Atlas being a bullet magnet, it's because an Atlas is usually at the head of a charge and also it moves the slowest, hence the easiest target to shoot at. Stalkers and Highlanders tend to hide behind cover and snipe/fire LRMs.

In my personal experience, the reason the enemy Atlas gets targeted first is that if you let it live long enough it will rip your assaults and heavies apart.