291 replies to this topic

[William Mountbank]

Seismic is a counter to LoS. Part of the fun of MWO for me was the process of trying to out think that mech I just saw go around the corner. If I'm right I can flank him, but maybe he bluffed and then I'm toast.

Seismic: Oh, he's just running straight at me. I guess I'll button mash in the direction of the pretty shapes.

[Appogee]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Yes he does. "op" means "thing which I do not like".

Please engage brain and stop being a hypocrite. People write in internet forums to express their views on what makes the game better or worse from their perspective. You do it too.

OP means something very specific... a game feature which is so out of balance with the rest of the game that it gives a very high advantage to those who have it, relative to others.

I explained in writing the reasons I ''don't like'' Seismic... I actually think it's ''too good'' and breaks the game for everyone, and also, it's an illogical magical new technology which also attacks the suspension of disbelief in what is a 30 year game franchise with its own logical consistencies. I can keep using it - in fact I'd be crazy not to - but in the interests of the game I think it is of balance and out of character with the game itself.

I don't like pop-tarting either. But I don't think it's ''OP'' or propose to change it, or even write any threads about it..

Edited by Appogee, 07 June 2013 - 02:13 AM.

[Appogee]

Soy, on 07 June 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

How the **** is a counter to a different mechanic, op.

You completely missed the point. The point was that introducing another OP counter as a way of balancing an OP game mechanic is just introducing more OP things to the game.

As for the ad hominem attack that followed... well, speaks for itself. If you can't argue with the idea, attack the poster instead.

[Appogee]

William Mountbank, on 07 June 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

Seismic is a counter to LoS. Part of the fun of MWO for me was the process of trying to out think that mech I just saw go around the corner. If I'm right I can flank him, but maybe he bluffed and then I'm toast.

LOL, exactly. And we already have indirect firing of LRMs for that ;-)

[Soy]

Appogee, on 07 June 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

You completely missed the point. The point was that introducing another OP counter as a way of balancing an OP game mechanic is just introducing more OP things to the game.

As for the ad hominem attack that followed... well, speaks for itself. If you can't argue with the idea, attack the poster instead.

i missed the point?

no bra, you did. you missed the point about what risk vs reward is. and what a HARD counter is. introducing more things into the game is exactly what it needs. it needs more content. but people cry when new content is added cuz they can't look farther than a goldfish into the future and see that this is a beta with things being tested and balanced in time. they can either change seismic at the mechanical root to nerf some of the reward from it, or they can introduce a hard counter to it that hedges risk for using seismic by the possibility of it being rendered moot in some situations at the cost of a precious module slot.

it's sad as hell that this community begs for more content, and when it's added, they cry about the content. have a little patience and understanding that this is a beta.

the **** are you going on about ad hominem btw? good lord, you can't be serious.

Edited by Soy, 07 June 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[Sephlock]

Appogee, on 07 June 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

LOL, exactly. And we already have indirect firing of LRMs for that ;-)

I'm going to be charitable and assume you aren't an LRM hater also.

Heres a crazy idea; How about we make other good modules so they compete for space, rather than making them all so bland that you'll never even notice when another player is using one?

[John MatriX82]

Hm I think it should be tweaked in its "resolution". Right now it reports you ANY simple movement on any target within 400m.

What if it was made similar to an Aliens movement sensor? With "sonar pings" one each 3-4"? You'd spot something moving, but you wouldn't have an idea if that red dot is a light, an heavy or an assault. You'd miss standing targets, or you would spot 1/2 mechs or you'd not be able to guess if the little red dot you spotted 3" earlier it's the same mech, or if it's another because the first one was a light and got out of your spotting range and it's an assault instead of it.

[Sephlock]

I for one would use the hell out of a Predator Vision module that gave us multicolored heat vision like we had early in the beta- with the advanced version letting you see things at a distance with it activated, like we were able to do earlier in the beta.

Or a module that played the sound of a baby crying to any light mech that gets hit with my SSRMs.

... what? I'd never unequip it, even on my mechs that don't have missile slots!

[DuSucre]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Heres a crazy idea; How about we make other good modules so they compete for space, rather than making them all so bland that you'll never even notice when another player is using one?

You are crazy.
And that's why your idea is the best : if all modules are useful, then we must make choices. Currently, only Seismic is truly useful and reliable.

[Sephlock]

DuSucre, on 07 June 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

You are crazy.
And that's why your idea is the best : if all modules are useful, then we must make choices. Currently, only Seismic is truly useful and reliable.

[Soy]

Meh, I think Adv Decay and Target Acquisition are decent...

...but yeah, since the day Seismic came out, it's been lord. Biggest game changer since ECM to be honest. In fact, moreso.

Edited by Soy, 07 June 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[William Mountbank]

How are advanced range, target decay and target info not useful? Seismic is the odd one out here, not because it's 'the only useful module', but for the same reason a module would stand out if it made all walls invisible, or gave a permanent target lock to LRMs.

[xengk]

I like it and install it on my medium mech.
It give us mediums a little something extra to do when the big boys are rolling about.
Scan for incoming reinforcement, hunt enemy direct fire support, and in a meta where is there is a lack of light; become pseudo-scout.

[MustrumRidcully]

If not your idea, I can only see lowering the range working. Maybe also only offer limited number of updates, say 1 "ping" per minute - the sensors might need to accumulate the data over time to give an accurate representation.
Though tha tmight lead more to the info "lagging" - which might also work.

[Sephlock]

Soy, on 07 June 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

Meh, I think Adv Decay and Target Acquisition are decent...

...but yeah, since the day Seismic came out, it's been lord. Biggest game changer since ECM to be honest. In fact, moreso.

That's a good one. Let it never be said that Soy has no sense of humor.

[MustrumRidcully]

Sephlock, on 07 June 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

I'm going to be charitable and assume you aren't an LRM hater also.

Heres a crazy idea; How about we make other good modules so they compete for space, rather than making them all so bland that you'll never even notice when another player is using one?

I don't disagree with this, though I think even a 200m max range or a "only when standing still" seismic module would not yet really be bland as any of the other modules.

I am definitely all for increasing the sexiness of modules.

[Appogee]

Soy, on 07 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

introducing more things into the game is exactly what it needs. it needs more content.

Yes, I agree, more content.

More maps. More game modes. MASC. More kinds of bases. Bases with turrets. More weather and gravity and heat variations. More Mechs. The missing weapon variants. An enduring meta-game aka Community Warfare. (Hell, I wish they'd do what MWLL did and add tanks and BA and ASF too, thought I know that will never happen.)

But not magical super-modules which break the content that we already have.

Soy, on 07 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

but people cry when new content is added cuz they can't look farther than a goldfish into the future ...

If your vision of MWO's future is more magical super-counters to misguided magical super-modules, then it's not a future that holds any promise for the game.

It's like the Pierce Brosnan series of James Bond. With each new super-tech being progressively more OP than the last, you end up with genetically engineered super dopplegangers controlling orbital lasers that shear off glaciers so that James Bond can surf a tidal wave on the bonnet of his wrecked invisible car. Ie. it all gets ridiculously OP, rendering all else that came before redundant, and there is simply nowhere left to go.

Soy, on 07 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

the **** are you going on about ad hominem btw? good lord, you can't be serious.

You said ''do you even know what OP means'' which seems a personal attack to me. But if that is an honest question then I apologise and hopefully I have demonstrated thoughtfully and well that I know EXACTLY what is meant by OP, and the impact it can have on a game.

Edited by Appogee, 07 June 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[Appogee]

William Mountbank, on 07 June 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

How are advanced range, target decay and target info not useful? Seismic is the odd one out here, not because it's 'the only useful module', but for the same reason a module would stand out if it made all walls invisible, or gave a permanent target lock to LRMs.

^ This. The other modules were mostly useful. Add more, for sure. But the problem with Seismic is that it's The One Module to Rule Them All. It's an order of magnitude better than the other modules and makes some of them completely unnecessary.

Hence this post. It is OP. It needs to be scaled back dramatically, not countered with a similarly OP counter such as ''Mech slippers of stealthiness''.

[Captain Wolfsburg]

So, you're mad because seismic sensor allows you to see what your radar should be able to see in the first place? The only reason they added seismic was because the way radar works in this game is completely stupid. A mech should already be able to see at the very least what's behind it.

[Soy]

I'll take stuff being unbalanced right now while we stress test it in a meaningless environment with no persistant state world mechanics that impact the progression and trajectory of our interactions,

over this **** not being balanced later on when it actually matters.

Course we need more important **** App, that's obvs.