36 replies to this topic

[ZeProme]

I know this questions is... kinda dumb, but no matter what I do, at what range with TAG, I still cannot pull up my own weight.

Here's my current CPTL-C1 build. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cfacac2dde1a3f

I will change it to this build when I have the funds: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a31b0d998548e9

At what range should I be LRMing? What are some of the strategies I should use while solo pugging?

[Redshift2k5]

The best way to get some real use out of a missile boat build?

[Zerberus]

Well, for starters, the C-1 is designed as more of an energy boat than a missile boat, the A1 and C4 are the missile boats. But that`s not so relevant when wer`re talking basics.

What I do in my C4 and my current A1 build is hold back a little behind the main force, wait for a target to pop up, and then jump or walk to get visual confirmation that I can hit the target reliably (no real cover in target area, ideally in open grould). Only then do I fire LRMs.

I generally hold my fire until the targets are 600m or less away, reducing the target`s time to react and ensuring that the missiles don`t self detonate before being on target.

Anything over 800m is a waste of missiles, becasue due to the arc and travel time, it`s entirely possible for many mechs to literally outrun them. For ex. when I see someone 950m away firing LRMs at me, I take 2 steps back and prepare to watch the cool fireworks while I shoot at his buddies.

This is my current C4 build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ae4fb667fea157a
This is how I would build it if I had to use a C-1 chassis: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d93a363e9ee6d45
This Is how I currently run my A1 with quite a bit of success: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8ed6c2003f44a9

Hope it helps

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Corison]

I find missile boats work best in the 2nd row just behind the brawlers. By having tag you can pick up your own targets under ECM cover.

This puts you around 400-600m which is great. Your targets wont have enough time to find cover, you can get your own lock fairly easily and your far enough back to withdraw if a brawler chases you.

Some tips, pay close attention to cover. Both your own and your enemies.
Your missiles are doing you no good if their slamming into hills.
A dual Gauss boat or other sniper will do a LOT more concentrated damage than you, so don't get in a slugging match with them.
If your counting on team members to provide locks, make sure you have a steady target before firing. Frequently early in a game people lose lock/los after 2-3 seconds and there goes your spotter, those missiles are now wasted.

You can work from longer ranges (600-1000) but only on the more open maps were its easier to keep locks.

Remember to keep close to your team, if your caught solo you are pretty much bait in a missile boat. This is one of the reasons I like to be at mid ranges. Snipers behind you and brawlers in front makes it tough for lights to get to you.

[Koniving]

If you have say, a fast catapult with light LRMs the best range is 400 to 200 meters while approaching. Same with any fast mediums that just happen to have LRMs. Fire as you approach, let the missiles soften your target.

If you're a dedicated missile boat it's another story. This gives you a good idea on how to use Redshift's advice from above, combined with my own (as I am the missile boat in this 8 versus 8 premade match).

Spoiler

Successful boat.


How to continue to be useful even as the boat begins to sink.


The counter to LRM boats (as seen by the boat). (Seen in the second match; as both matches are against the same group and back to back.)

Edited by Koniving, 09 June 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Corison]

Also remember you do not _NEED_ a lock to fire. If you don't have a lock your missiles will try to impact the area your aiming at.

While the missiles are dumb, the enemy wont get a lock warning. Frequently if enemies are moving in and out the same cover you can give them a very rude surprise. I have picked up more than one Raven or Atlas kill when they sit still thinking I cant get a lock, only to have the missiles slam into them. This takes a fair bit of practice to get down, but can be a very useful trick. Note that smart enemies wont stay in one spot, which really limits how useful this can be against good pilots.

[Koniving]

Zerberus, on 09 June 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Anything over 800m is a waste of missiles, becasue due to the arc and travel time, it`s entirely possible for many mechs to literally outrun them. For ex. when I see someone 950m away firing LRMs at me, I take 2 steps back and prepare to watch the cool fireworks while I shoot at his buddies.

The arc from 750m and up brings the missiles directly down on the enemy, and is ideal for landing missiles directly On or In The Back Of enemies mounted on top of pillars in pop-tart positions on Tourmaline. Experienced as both the missileer and the poptart. Nothing is worse than being on top of a pillar backing out of sight, and then seeing missiles fly over you and then slam into the back of your mech, instantly killing you.

[scJazz]

ZeProme, on 09 June 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I know this questions is... kinda dumb, but no matter what I do, at what range with TAG, I still cannot pull up my own weight.

Here's my current CPTL-C1 build. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cfacac2dde1a3f

I will change it to this build when I have the funds: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a31b0d998548e9

At what range should I be LRMing? What are some of the strategies I should use while solo pugging?

Morning ZeProme... sorry I missed you in that match, was messing about and in a Trial Spider. Pressed Disconnect Quickly!

1 ) SA SA SA! Are you behind the friendly blob? The exposed flank? Do you know the map well enough to know what kind of cover the target might be in? Can you see the target, even if only for a peek-a-boo.
2 ) LRM Flight Path is radically different at the 750m+ range. They will clear buildings and ridges pretty handily.
3 ) Have you been standing still lobbing missiles from partial cover. Yeah? Your about to die because a light or a sniper is about to take your bunny ears right off. Firing missiles is a wonderful attention getter!
4 ) Are you being shot at? Break off and get a new spot.
5 ) Can you see friendly shots passing from behind you? Move! At best your going to get shot in the back. At worst your blocking friendly DF!
6 ) Never be afraid to fire... you have plenty of missiles and having Betty screaming at you is distracting. You are laying down suppressive fire!
7 ) I know I said the opposite before but... chain fire your missiles not group. I was wrong.
8 ) Watch the lock/unlock pattern your getting from friendlies... assuming they even know where the lock key is located. That Jenner is not your buddy as he is constantly shifting targets or losing lock during his circles. That Cataphract probably is your buddy! This full loops back to SA. Having a sense of where your friendly LOS are compared to cover will give you the ultimate target! The poor Atlas!
9 ) Finally know when to shutdown!

[ZeProme]

scJazz, on 09 June 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Morning ZeProme... sorry I missed you in that match, was messing about and in a Trial Spider. Pressed Disconnect Quickly!

1 ) SA SA SA! Are you behind the friendly blob? The exposed flank? Do you know the map well enough to know what kind of cover the target might be in? Can you see the target, even if only for a peek-a-boo.
2 ) LRM Flight Path is radically different at the 750m+ range. They will clear buildings and ridges pretty handily.
3 ) Have you been standing still lobbing missiles from partial cover. Yeah? Your about to die because a light or a sniper is about to take your bunny ears right off. Firing missiles is a wonderful attention getter!
4 ) Are you being shot at? Break off and get a new spot.
5 ) Can you see friendly shots passing from behind you? Move! At best your going to get shot in the back. At worst your blocking friendly DF!
6 ) Never be afraid to fire... you have plenty of missiles and having Betty screaming at you is distracting. You are laying down suppressive fire!
7 ) I know I said the opposite before but... chain fire your missiles not group. I was wrong.
8 ) Watch the lock/unlock pattern your getting from friendlies... assuming they even know where the lock key is located. That Jenner is not your buddy as he is constantly shifting targets or losing lock during his circles. That Cataphract probably is your buddy! This full loops back to SA. Having a sense of where your friendly LOS are compared to cover will give you the ultimate target! The poor Atlas!
9 ) Finally know when to shutdown!

I saw you this morning, gave a shout to you. But then you disconnected so I was like :<

Thanks for the tips.

[Zerberus]

Koniving, on 09 June 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

The arc from 750m and up brings the missiles directly down on the enemy, and is ideal for landing missiles directly On or In The Back Of enemies mounted on top of pillars in pop-tart positions on Tourmaline. Experienced as both the missileer and the poptart. Nothing is worse than being on top of a pillar backing out of sight, and then seeing missiles fly over you and then slam into the back of your mech, instantly killing you.

Correct, even more so with indirect fire. However missiles fly 1000m from the source and then self detonate, including the additional distance of the arc. that means that a target 950m away is effectively immune, even though the missiles say 1000m, because the arc makes them fly over 1000m to reach thir target. Whether this is a long standing bug or intentional mechanic I do not know.

I actually use the LRMs a bit differently than many in my pults, and intentionally close to 200-250 meters, so I can use them in combination with the streaks, but I would consider myself an aggressive catapult in comparison to many of the "stand and lob" boats. I can and will chase down mediums and other heavies (and even some lights) and smash them with LRMs the whole time, simply because I can, even moreso when in the A-1 "2/3 Streakcat" build.

On my Atlas D with 2xALRM20, I tend to try for 750m+ in many cases, you make a good point

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[ZeProme]

Zerberus, on 09 June 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Well, for starters, the C-1 is designed as more of an energy boat than a missile boat, the A1 and C4 are the missile boats. But that`s not so relevant when wer`re talking basics.

What I do in my C4 and my current A1 build is hold back a little behind the main force, wait for a target to pop up, and then jump or walk to get visual confirmation that I can hit the target reliably (no real cover in target area, ideally in open grould). Only then do I fire LRMs.

I generally hold my fire until the targets are 600m or less away, reducing the target`s time to react and ensuring that the missiles don`t self detonate before being on target.

Anything over 800m is a waste of missiles, becasue due to the arc and travel time, it`s entirely possible for many mechs to literally outrun them. For ex. when I see someone 950m away firing LRMs at me, I take 2 steps back and prepare to watch the cool fireworks while I shoot at his buddies.

This is my current C4 build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ae4fb667fea157a
This is how I would build it if I had to use a C-1 chassis: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d93a363e9ee6d45
This Is how I currently run my A1 with quite a bit of success: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8ed6c2003f44a9

Hope it helps

I can't understand why you don't have tags in those loadouts. In almost every battle, there have always been ECMs.

I bought and rage sold the CPTL-A1 before. The only viable build for it is the splat-cat, streak cat or hybrid of both, but not anything to do with LRMs.

CPTL-A1 seems to be really crippled without other useful hardpoints.

[Mokou]

Quote

How do you play missile boats?

Like this:

[scJazz]

The very next match I played after writing earlier post

ZeProme, on 09 June 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I can't understand why you don't have tags in those loadouts. In almost every battle, there have always been ECMs.

I bought and rage sold the CPTL-A1 before. The only viable build for it is the splat-cat, streak cat or hybrid of both, but not anything to do with LRMs.

CPTL-A1 seems to be really crippled without other useful hardpoints.

I just got 3 kills and 4 assists in my A1 including the two idiots in the Atlai who are even now no doubt posting in Game Balance about LRMs being OP.

2 ALRM15s
4 SSRM2s
Most importantly... BAP!

[Zerberus]

ZeProme, on 09 June 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I can't understand why you don't have tags in those loadouts. In almost every battle, there have always been ECMs.

Simple: TAG doesn`t work through mountains and buildings., and breaking ECM is the job of the scouts and brawlers. This ties into the above mentioned " know where your teammates are"

Quote

I bought and rage sold the CPTL-A1 before. The only viable build for it is the splat-cat, streak cat or hybrid of both, but not anything to do with LRMs.

I originally bought it as a splatcat, got bored, tried it as a Streakcat, got bored, and then "invented" the LRM90 Roflpult. That was fun for a few weeks, esp while LRMs were nerfed but you could still rain down hellish damage and still cause forum "LRMS are still OP rage". But it was an absolute "glass cannon", and as useful as a wine glass after the 6th full volley.... but it was great for trolling uncautious medium pilots... every so often just 15 , then when someone took the bait you darkened the sky and watched them panic.

Quote

CPTL-A1 seems to be really crippled without other useful hardpoints.

I actually agree, but it can be made to work ok in the right hands. I simply felt the K-2 was a perversion of a catapult for not having Jumpjets and decided for the A-1 instead. It IS however not my favorite, that would be the C-4 by a good measure.

Just for ***** and giggles, here`s the roflpult build. Note the 99(!!!) point alphastrike, ridiculously low armor, and 200xl I borrowed from my ´mando: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e685df6a12f86e9

All of the builds have no arti and teh 300xl (save the roflpult) because I regularly swap things around, but the current Build I put in my OP is what seems to get the most out if it....

Side Note: The A-1 stays in unmarked Obsidian Black, becasue if it crosses your path and gets to use it`s loadout as intended, it`s almost guaranteed to absolutely ruin somebody`s day

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[scJazz]

Zerberus, on 09 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Just for ***** and giggles, here`s the roflpult build. Note the 99(!!!) point alphastrike, ridiculously low armor, and 200xl I borrowed from my ´mando: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e685df6a12f86e9

All of the builds have no arti and teh 300xl (save the roflpult) because I regularly swap things around, but the current Build I put in my OP is what seems to get the most out if it....

Side Note: The A-1 stays in unmarked Obsidian Black, becasue if it crosses your path and gets to use it`s loadout as intended, it`s almost guaranteed to absolutely ruin somebody`s day

What u did to that Cat is just WRONG! Sick! Perverted!

I it!

[Edson Drake]

What the above posters said is correct, in particular what Koniving said about effective range.

If you fire them about 200m they will be straight launched towards the enemy, pretty nifty. After 400m they start to lose effectiveness, yeah so much for Long Range Missiles huh?

Tag is great in that it can correct the flight path. For example:

Get a lock and launch. If ECM is close you may lose the lock and the target. Point Tag to him, it will make a turn and fly towards him again.

I didn't use Tag before, but now is a staple in my boats.

[Zerberus]

scJazz, on 09 June 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

What u did to that Cat is just WRONG! Sick! Perverted!

I it!

So now there`s 2 of us

What`s really evil is that all 90 LRMs come out in one huge cloud. You can almost feel the mech getting lighter every time you push "goodnight"

Massive "LRM catapults are OP" QQ incoming, lol.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Konril]

ZeProme, on 09 June 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I know this questions is... kinda dumb, but no matter what I do, at what range with TAG, I still cannot pull up my own weight.

Here's my current CPTL-C1 build. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cfacac2dde1a3f

I will change it to this build when I have the funds: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a31b0d998548e9

At what range should I be LRMing? What are some of the strategies I should use while solo pugging?

I'm not seeing anything particularly wrong with your loadouts. The Catapult C1 is a good choice because those medium lasers are enough to put up a decent fight against a light mech behind allied lines. Honestly, if I see a C4 or A1 LRM boat without an escort, I'll be thinking "free lunch," even when I'm in my own Trebuchet 7M boat.

Redshift's comically large picture advice isn't far off the mark. One thing to always remember, and repeat to yourself until you get the message, "Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy someone else to shoot." Seriously. Long range missile boats have the worst time defending themselves. Without backup weapons, like your medium lasers, LRM boats are helpless against even a light that wanders into that 180m minimum range. Sniper battles are almost as bad. If the target is 720m out, it's going to take your missiles 6 seconds to just get there, which is plenty of time for the sniper to get into cover and shake the lock. Not to mention the fact that you are exposed a lot longer in order to keep the opponent targeted for that long (if someone else isn't acting as a spotter).

I think instead of a best distance to use LRMs, there is more a best time to use them. I've had the best results with my Trebuchet when the enemy becomes occupied by teammates. If your teammates have started a big brawl then fire at will. The enemy won't be heading to cover while the brawlers are on top of them. At least, not if they don't want to become easy prey for the brawlers. Beyond that, in PUG games, there tends to be a lot of stupidity going around that one can really capitalize. If that big target is out in the open on flat ground then he's an easy kill. Two Artemis LRM 15s can likely core and Atlas in 14 seconds if you get him from the front. (About 3 times as long and taking 3 times the ammo if you have to get him from the side, or he knows enough to torso-twist.) So if he doesn't have a place to get under cover in 12 seconds then he is the one in trouble.

Your range against light mechs is more like 650m instead of 1000m. Any farther and they can actually out-run the missile if they aren't running toward you. But at the same time, they don't have the armor to take a lot of LRM hits. Find one harassing a teammate and you probably won't make the kill with LRMs. But a after salvo from 300-500 meters away that light mech isn't going to be in much shape to continue to fight long. A lone LRM boat would be easy prey to light mechs, but two LRM boats can turn that situation around awfully quick working together.

The best thing you can do in pickup groups is to learn what your teammates are doing and how they fight. You can really be an asset to your team if your team covers you. But in a typical PUG, they almost have to be tricked into it. If you haven't used all your module slots for the more expensive stuff, it might be a good idea to carry a UAV. If things go well, you probably won't need to use it. But when you run into trouble, having multiple enemies appear on their radar might be the best way to get the team's attention.

But that's what I can think of for now. I do hope this helps.

[Just wanna play]

Zerberus, on 09 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Simple: TAG doesn`t work through mountains and buildings., and breaking ECM is the job of the scouts and brawlers. This ties into the above mentioned " know where your teammates are"



I originally bought it as a splatcat, got bored, tried it as a Streakcat, got bored, and then "invented" the LRM90 Roflpult. That was fun for a few weeks, esp while LRMs were nerfed but you could still rain down hellish damage and still cause forum "LRMS are still OP rage". But it was an absolute "glass cannon", and as useful as a wine glass after the 6th full volley.... but it was great for trolling uncautious medium pilots... every so often just 15 , then when someone took the bait you darkened the sky and watched them panic.


I actually agree, but it can be made to work ok in the right hands. I simply felt the K-2 was a perversion of a catapult for not having Jumpjets and decided for the A-1 instead. It IS however not my favorite, that would be the C-4 by a good measure.

Just for ***** and giggles, here`s the roflpult build. Note the 99(!!!) point alphastrike, ridiculously low armor, and 200xl I borrowed from my ´mando: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e685df6a12f86e9

All of the builds have no arti and teh 300xl (save the roflpult) because I regularly swap things around, but the current Build I put in my OP is what seems to get the most out if it....

Side Note: The A-1 stays in unmarked Obsidian Black, becasue if it crosses your path and gets to use it`s loadout as intended, it`s almost guaranteed to absolutely ruin somebody`s day

you arent the first to design that mech iv done that 2

[Dude42]

I usually carry the whole game in my missile boat, with loads of 1k+ games, and almost always at least 4 kills. I'll let you in on the secret. You need a good dedicated spotter, and to be able to communicate with him. Also, don't forget to carry lots of missiles. I use an AWS-8R with 3xLRM15+Artemis, 2520 missiles, and a couple medium lasers for emergencies(don't laugh those lasers haze dozens of kills).

It's pretty strong.

If you absolutely can't find a single friend to spot for you(the spotter makes TONS of cbills and XP from spot/tag bonuses), then just stay about 200m behind or to one side of the main force of friendlies, and it helps to have seismic sensor.

Edit:Artemis is absolutely required. Without it, it's hard to even break 500 damage in a round.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...95dc24efd2ee2aa

Edited by Dude42, 09 June 2013 - 11:55 AM.