67 replies to this topic

[Tam Wolfcry]

It is still the most OP gear in the game. Any piece of wargear that completely nullifies an entire line of weapons, is broken. If you at least added ECM to your matching logic, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But you don't. And all too often I see matches of no ECM vs multiple ECM. This is working as intended?

I still have not activated my premium time. I will not activate it until you fix ECMs. It is the most asinine item that you have added to this game and you have done nothing to address the game balance for it.

Here is a really easy solution. Make it work against everyone. It becomes a blackout bubble. So if you are inside of it, you don't see out. If you are outside of it, you don't see in. That means mechs covered by ECM can't target anything, but also can't be targeted. Also, no mechs appear on the mini-map if you are within ECM bubble just like you don't see mechs in an ECM bubble. The blackout works both ways.

Simple clean solution that is fair and and makes ECMs situational. Works great for mechs that have direct fire weapons. Gives even more incentive for LRM boats to carry tag. It eliminates the streak ecm boats. It requires forethought to use instead of the absolute no brainer that you have created now.

[CancR]

The problem is that it's all three ecm suites built into one. (Guardian, Stealth, and angel) if they made it the same weight and slots, and only had the guardian effect which would add time to missile locks, and would randomly cut out locks for a moment, then it would be fine. That's how it was in mw 4 and in battle tech and how it should be.

[Phlyk]

Honestly, I barely even notice ECM anymore and can't even remember the last time I felt frustrated by it now.

[Jeremy Wade]

I'm confused.

PPC hits now disable ECM temporarily, Tagging an ECM mech will allow your team to target it, NARCing an ECM mech allows you to target the mech, carrying BAP prevents a lone ECM mech from preventing you from locking targets.

ECM does not also make a mech invisible to the naked eye. Instead of mashing on 'R' like a trained chimp, try looking out the cockpit windows when you see 'LOW SIGNAL'.

It's like you've been living in a cave or something.

[Soy]

Never, not one time, were any Soy-****s given over ECM.

Only time I think critically bout ECM is when talking group composition.

Dude right above hit nail on head, PPC > ECM, good day.

Edited by Soy, 09 June 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Jeremy Wade, on 09 June 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I'm confused.

PPC hits now disable ECM temporarily, Tagging an ECM mech will allow your team to target it, NARCing an ECM mech allows you to target the mech, carrying BAP prevents a lone ECM mech from preventing you from locking targets.

ECM does not also make a mech invisible to the naked eye. Instead of mashing on 'R' like a trained chimp, try looking out the cockpit windows when you see 'LOW SIGNAL'.

It's like you've been living in a cave or something.

Unfortunately that's not what ECM is. ECM is an Information Warfare tool in Battle Tech, as in when Mechs target an ECM Mech, they do not get any information on the variant type, armor levels, weapon loadout, or equipment it carries (they are however still able to target it). BAP was used to counter that if they entered into each other's range envelope.

Equipping one item to counter another item is poor balance and is completely against the spirit of Battle Tech, making for instance, basic loadouts without any ECM/BAP/PPC/TAG (if they equip LRM's or SSRM's) to be wasted tonnage unless they can cross their fingers and assume someone else is bringing 50+ hard counters. It makes using certain Mechs a complete a waste of time, like an A1 in its original form only using LRM's, which is conversely why most A1 builds are with things that aren't shut off by a magic cloud, like SRM's or SSRM's with BAP.

ECM is also more akin to a super-AECM with an ECM's range. So what will that make AECM if they put it in the game, just enhanced AECM range? Even AECM never prevented LRM locks, just the tracking ability of SSRM's, and, even then SSRM's can still dumbfire so they aren't wasted tonnage vs. AECM.

ECM also did shut off powerful tools like NARC. A NARC does practically nothing of what it actually it did in TT or other Mech Titles (SRM Tracking and LRM auto-seeking beacons).

Again ECM in its current form has nothing to do with Information Warfare, in its current form it is the decision to bring "Item X to Turn On/Off Item Y." It is now more akin to a combat device, including its "hard" counters. Big Fish Balancing does not work and its unimaginative, and defeats the purpose of including Record Sheet Mechs in the game. There is much more potential they could have done with Electronic Warfare equipment.

Edited by General Taskeen, 09 June 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Livewyr]

ECM is less threatening now that BAP shields mechs from being disrupted by a troll-raven..

but it's still the most beneficial piece of equipment per ton in the game. (It requires no effort, but all the counters do- except the BAP-tax)

I think even it is overshadowed by Seismic right now though.

[Psikez]

Binary or not I am content with BAP countering an ECM

[VXJaeger]

ECM is not a "issue" anymore, because it (finally) has plenty of countermeasures.

[Darius Deadeye]

Get seismic and BAP, pretend ECM doesn't exist.

[FupDup]

The way it should work is that ECM should be toned down and so should its crapload of counters (I personally like MW4's version of ECM versus BAP). Rock-paper-scissors isn't a whole lot of fun in first-person games...

ECM should not hard-counter lock-on missiles (just make the locks take longer to achieve and easier to break). BAP should not hard-counter ECM (just reduce the aforementioned effects of ECM). PPCs probably don't really need the EMP effect because they're the best weapon in the game regardless. And that one module that shall not be named...probably not needed, either.

Edited by FupDup, 09 June 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[General Taskeen]

VXJaeger, on 09 June 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

ECM is not a "issue" anymore, because it (finally) has plenty of countermeasures.

Oh, how about those poor Atlas7-RS Stock souls that go up against Atlas7-D-DC's with LRM's? Suddenly, they can't use their LRM's because "working as intended", while they are showered with Atals7-D-DC LRM Locked Rain. The issue is still there, its just heavily covered up. When the stars align without 50+ countermeasures in a match, the "issue" does not simply vanish into thin air.

Again, ECM/BAP/PPC, etc., have nothing to do with actual Information Warfare at this point of their programming.

Edited by General Taskeen, 09 June 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

General Taskeen, on 09 June 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Oh, how about those poor Atlas7-RS Stock souls that go up against Atlas7-D-DC's with LRM's? Suddenly, they can't use their LRM's because "working as intended", while they are showered with Atals7-D-DC LRM Locked Rain. The issue is still there, its just heavily covered up. When the stars align without 50+ countermeasures in a match, the "issue" does not simply vanish into thin air.

Again, ECM/BAP/PPC, etc., have nothing to do with actual Information Warfare at this point of their programming.

Those poor, precious stock mechs.

[Soy]

stock Rs and lrm ddcs.......?....... yeah bro........... ...too dynamic for you to handle I guess, which says a lot, cuz games kinda straight forward atm.

Edited by Soy, 09 June 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Jabilo]

Right now ECM is not OP.

If Streaks are buffed then it may be that ECM once again becomes the defining point of light mech selection. That would be a great shame as it has been nice to see a selection of light mechs on the field.

I personally do not like the current information warfare set up in any way. I too would like to see a deeper system than the one we have of hard counters.

But to stick strictly to the point (is it OP?) then the answer is that right now it feels fine.

[Miekael]

I still think it is OP, the system gives too much benefit by itself and these counters just restrict mech customization for builds that want to use lock on missiles. Having a 1 energy hard point, 2.5 ton, 3 crit slot tax to use an LRMs is ridiculous. No sense in not boating them if you are going to devote that much extra into just using one.

Edited by Miekael, 09 June 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[Texas Merc]

Is this really still a thing?

[The Strange]

With all the counters they have added to ECM in this game, it is basically useless. The only thing ECM does at all now is prevent LRM locks until you can get a BAP in range of it. And people are still crying about it? Seriously...

[DocBach]

ECM itself isn't balanced, at all. and it really doesn't have much to do with information warfare, at all. its all about denying missile capabilities.

Its sort of funny, all of beagle active probes information gathering abilities were stripped off and turned into modules - seismic sensors actually function how Beagle is suppose to, giving targeting information beyond line of sight.

ECM exists to block that, so you can sneak up even if the bad guy has Beagle.

ECM is also suppose to have a third mode called Ghost target mode which makes the ECM 'Mech harder to track and shoot at by flooding the radar screen with false contacts, imagine a bunch of fake seismic hits. It also gives a +1 to fire so that could be equated to a longer lock on time when running in that mode.

ECM is still unbalanced. Even if the counters are taken, it is still the best 1.5 tons in the game. It is better at antimissile than AMS, hell, if you stand next to an enemy missile boat, he can't even get locks on any enemy to even shoot with his missiles.

ECM and Beagle have been reduced from providing a deep information warfare pillar to allowing a team to use missiles.

Vassago Rain, on 09 June 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Those poor, precious stock mechs.

for a new player trying to grind his way out of stock mech hell, not being able to shoot your weapons is a big turn off. I tried to introduce this game to several friends around the launch of ECM when the trial mechs just so happened to be loaded down with missiles. Guess how many of them played through long enough to buy their own mechs? I'll give you a hint, its less than 1.

[Trauglodyte]

People still have issues with ECM?