64 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

BUT I can't because you need 10 to start.

Please fix this bug PGI.

The flee won't need 10 hs either, as urbi, he doesn't need them at all, because he is jagermech.

Edited by WolvesX, 06 June 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

You know it's not a bug right? 10 is the minimum PGI stuck with. Not to say it's not worth examining on the lighter Mechs, but the requirement is indeed, working as intended.

[Dirk Le Daring]

10 is the minimum number of heatsinks required for ALL mechs, regardless of weight. It is from the Battletech ruleset, and is a core principle of mech functionality.

Edit: It's not a bug.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 06 June 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Echo6]

Not a bug and doesn't save you any weight anyway.

[Deathlike]

lol.

10 HS is the required standard for ages. I don't think you can bend the basic rule.

What you need is the 6 MG Spider. No HS required!

[Alymbic]

I feel sorry for the flea. Under current engine rules (yes, I know they might have changed things by then) the max size engine it will have is a 170 (137.7 max speed). So, best case scenario, its going to need 4 external heatsinks. That's 4 tons of filler on a 20 ton mech. So, lets call it a 16 ton mech, because that's what you'll be working with before you even count in an engine. 15 tons with endo structure

Edited by Alymbic, 06 June 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Waking One]

Alymbic, on 06 June 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I feel sorry for the flea. Under current engine rules (yes, I know they might have changed things by then) the max size engine it will have is a 170 (137.7 max speed). So, best case scenario, its going to need 4 external heatsinks. That's 4 tons of filler on a 20 ton mech. So, lets call it a 16 ton mech, because that's what you'll be working with before you even count in an engine. 15 tons with endo structure

It's best to count the heatsinks' weight as part of the engine weight. A mech can't function without 10 heatsinks afaik according to tabletop so they stuck with that. Could be wrong but..

[mindwarp]

I don't run light mechs much in MWO, but in battletech the 10 base heatsinks do not take up tonnage. They may take crits if they don't fit in the engine, but they don't weigh anything. Is that not the case here? Definitely a bug if the base heatsinks do take up tonnage.

[ReissTC]

My only complaint about the 10HS requirement is that only the internal engine heatsinks are considered true DHS.

Now, not saying "make all DHS 2.0 instead of 1.4". It's just a bit silly that mechs with sub-250 rated engines have to endure inferior cooling to a 250+ engine mech with the same number of DHS.

Edit:

Quote

[color=#959595]I don't run light mechs much in MWO, but in battletech the 10 base heatsinks do not take up tonnage. They may take crits if they don't fit in the engine, but they don't weigh anything. Is that not the case here? Definitely a bug if the base heatsinks do take up tonnage.[/color]

I believe engine weights in MWO match up (mostly; there's a topic or post somewhere that explains the flaws of the system, don't know where) to TT weights, regardless of heatsink requirements. MWO engines seem to generally be lighter in order to offset the difference.

E.g. standard 100 engine weights 1 ton in MWO, requires 6 tons of heatsinks. 7 tons total. This includes the weight of the cockpit and the gyro.

In TT it weighs 3 tons. The 6 required heatsinks weigh nothing. The gyro will weigh 1 ton, and the cockpit is 3 tons. 7 tons total.

Edited by ReissTC, 06 June 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[Waking One]

mindwarp, on 06 June 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I don't run light mechs much in MWO, but in battletech the 10 base heatsinks do not take up tonnage. They may take crits if they don't fit in the engine, but they don't weigh anything. Is that not the case here? Definitely a bug if the base heatsinks do take up tonnage.

The tonnage works out to be exactly the same. The MWO engines weigh less because of missing heatsinks which you then have to add. Arguable which way of doing it makes more or less sense.

[Lootee]

What Reiss said ^^. The first 10 doubles should be 2.0 regardless of whether they fit in the engine or not.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 06 June 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[One Medic Army]

You're all looking at it from the wrong direction.
Every engine comes with 10 free zero weight heatsinks in tabletop.
To make their jobs coding weights and such easier PGI has folded several weights into the engine: cockpit, gyro, engine itself.
Then to further make coding easier they subtracted from the engine weight the weight of those heatsinks that needed to be mounted externally.

So the your MWO build with a 200engine and no external heatsinks actually weighs 2 more tons than is listed, those 2 extra tons of engine weight are accounted for by those 2 extra heatsinks.

[shabowie]

PanchoTortilla, on 06 June 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

What Reiss said ^^. The first 10 doubles should be 2.0 regardless of whether they fit in the engine or not.

All doubles should be 2.0 actually. I feel compelled to occasionally remind everyone that we were told we couldn't have them for a fake reason.

Edited by shabowie, 06 June 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[FupDup]

shabowie, on 06 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

All doubles should be 2.0 actually. I feel compelled to occasionally remind everyone that we were told we couldn't have them for a fake reason.

BUT A JENNER WITH 2.0 TRUEDUBS WOULD BE ABLE TO CORE AN ATLAS IN 3 SECONDS! WE CAN'T ALLOW THAT!

Edited by FupDup, 06 June 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Waking One]

FupDup, on 06 June 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

BUT A JENNER WITH 2.0 TRUEDUBS WOULD BE ABLE TO CORE AN ATLAS IN 3 SECONDS! WE CAN'T ALLOW THAT!

Still ranks as the most hilarious fail from PGI, and to think i generally support them.

2.0 double heatsinks and remove the heat ceiling increase, ty.

[FupDup]

Waking One, on 06 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Still ranks as the most hilarious fail from PGI, and to think i generally support them.

2.0 double heatsinks and remove the heat ceiling increase, ty.

Actually, I'd say that the devastating effect of a 6 MG Spider on the back of an Atlas trumps the 3-Second Jenner.

[Stonefalcon]

Why do I need 10 heat sinks when a Gauss Rifle doesn't generate heat. I want to fit a Gauss to a spider but the 10 heat sinks rule makes it not fit. The other possibility is the 3C cicada with dual Gauss, it won't need heat sinks so it can use that extra tonnage to have a better engine than a 100 and have more armour other than 1 tonne

[mindwarp]

You need the 10 heat sinks because they're considered to be the minimum to run a mech. The engine generates heat, and in tabletop, damage to the engine will increase the heat produced - up to a maximum of 10. Movement also generates heat. All in all, the minimum 10 heatsinks are so that your mech isn't going to explode for the heat produced by the reactor during normal operations - not to dissapate weapons heat.

[Trauglodyte]

WolvesX, on 06 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

BUT I can't because you need 10 to start.

Please fix this bug PGI.

The flee won't need 10 hs either, as urbi, he doesn't need them at all, because he is jagermech.

A lot of people don't know this but all engines below 250 have a reduced weight to take the added heat sinks into account. So, if you have a 225 STD, it would weigh 1 ton less then the TT version because you need to add that extra heat sink. This wasn't an issue in TT because every engine came with 10 heat sinks standard. Why PGI took this approach, I don't know. But it is what it is. Honestly, if you don't need the heat sinks, down grade to SHSs and call it a day - you'll save yourself the extra space.

[Waking One]

FupDup, on 06 June 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Actually, I'd say that the devastating effect of a 6 MG Spider on the back of an Atlas trumps the 3-Second Jenner.

touche good sir