45 replies to this topic

[Voidcrafter]

John MatriX82, on 10 June 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I hope they'll realize that heat penalties won't work and they'll introduce some kind of hardpoint restriction system, something like that you can still place any weapon anywhere, but the chassis has a limit, like that Stalkers can mount 2x3crit energy slot maximum (2 PPCs) or 3x2crit slots (3x LL); the remaining 4/3 slots would be limited to 1 crit slot (mls/smls and so on).. then make the Awesomes (8Q/9M) to be the only ones to carry 3xPPCs and bang! You'd have a counterable but respected chassis.

Srms and lrms should have a similar system, but only considering the total number of tubes available in a section, so that if that section holds 3 missile hardpoints with 10 tubes (Cent A), you can't load 3xSRM6, but SRM4+SRM6+LRM10 (mixing of srms and lrms is allowed) or srm4+srm4+srm2 if you want higher dps srms only.

Yea I was "preaching" the same idea over and over and over during the past week...
I don't know... It's not that it's unplayeble(though when there are like 4+ PPC boats paired with about 4 AC40 Jagers the game becomes nightmare), it's just that if a decent shot is taken from the builds named on a medium mech - you're half past dead already.
The SRMs, I think, would bring some of the ballance back and would give the boating builds something to be afraid from.
Two Zombie Cents/4SPs could've made the life of a PEPSI boat living hell, now they're barely a distraction...
If I get back to play a medium I have no reason at all to not put a PPC instead of wasting tonage for SRMs - one ordinary PPC is far better than 2xSRM6-es, it equals in weight almost the same(2x3 tons + 2 tons(at least) for ammo = 8 tons == a PPC with a DHS) but in terms of usefulness the two of them can't even begin to compete.
That pushes the metagame even more to our all well know state.

I do remember the times when seing a splat-STALKER close almost made me **** my pants.
When I do now I'm really happy, cause I know it's not gonna do that much harm.
Now fighting a PPC STALKER feels almost like those times.
Don't think that's right...

[ByteHacker]

I dunno guys, As a Zombie Cent-A Pilot, I generally get a whole lot of kills in a match(At least 2) now that the srms fly straight. I once got 800+ damage just by using srms and 2 medium lasers. I really don't see what is the big rant about how it is COMPLETELY USELESS. Sure it needs some love, but I disagree that it is useless, especially when you put it on a zombie mech that can take in 5-6 alphas and still have all its weapons that runs at 98 kph. It really is quite devastating when you start hugging them.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I've noticed the spread is indeed tighter. I've also noticed the damage became asstacular, even with support from lasers to burn the armor down first.

[LordBraxton]

devs need to get over the idea that SRMs and SSRMs have to do the same damage

if they stay linked SSRMs will always be too strong, or SRMs will always be too weak

2.5 dmg SRMs plz

Edited by LordBraxton, 10 June 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Vapor Trail]

In TT (gasp, the dreaded abbreviation) Streaks didn't outclass their "stupid" brethren, they just allowed you to hit with the full flight. If you hit with any of them, you hit with all.

The problem comes in the fact the MWO Streaks allow you to completely outclass the SRM s because once you get a lock, you can fire them as fast as they cycle and hit with every missile. Basically the TT equivalent of making a single to hit roll at long range and being able to fire, and hit, with every SSRM on a mech, every turn thereafter provided you maintain a LOS and firing arc on the target.

SSRM2s should be arond the same effectiveness as an SRM2. The mechanics can (or must) differ, but the weapons should be basically about as effective as each other. Otherwise, when SSRM6s (especially clan versions) come out people will flock to them and never look back.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vapor Trail, on 10 June 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

In TT (gasp, the dreaded abbreviation) Streaks didn't outclass their "stupid" brethren, they just allowed you to hit with the full flight. If you hit with any of them, you hit with all.

The problem comes in the fact the MWO Streaks allow you to completely outclass the SRM s because once you get a lock, you can fire them as fast as they cycle and hit with every missile. Basically the TT equivalent of making a single to hit roll at long range and being able to fire, and hit, with every SSRM on a mech, every turn thereafter provided you maintain a LOS and firing arc on the target.

SSRM2s should be arond the same effectiveness as an SRM2. The mechanics can (or must) differ, but the weapons should be basically about as effective as each other. Otherwise, when SSRM6s (especially clan versions) come out people will flock to them and never look back.

Why am I reminded of the Witch/Mage class in D&D 4, that introduced an At-Will power that is one attack roll ,and can then be sustained as a standard action... Of course, that was probably not imbalanced, because you still just inflicted at-will level type of damage, and another at-will power for Mages was the auto-hit Magic MIssile. (Though I preferred the old version. I like rolling my attack and damage.)

[John MatriX82]

ByteHacker, on 10 June 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I dunno guys, As a Zombie Cent-A Pilot, I generally get a whole lot of kills in a match(At least 2) now that the srms fly straight. I once got 800+ damage just by using srms and 2 medium lasers. I really don't see what is the big rant about how it is COMPLETELY USELESS. Sure it needs some love, but I disagree that it is useless, especially when you put it on a zombie mech that can take in 5-6 alphas and still have all its weapons that runs at 98 kph. It really is quite devastating when you start hugging them.

I admit I haven't tried them much after the latest tweak, but "before" the cylinder like path I could go way beyond 1000 dmg even in competitive premades with that thing. Ok, SRMs had the huge splash-gate advantage, but we've fallen from 2.5 + huge splash to 1.5 with damage spread all over even at point blank and I don't really how much splash damage, but I guess it's not that much since with a Cent A with my usual pre-patch 400 srms I reached barely 500 dmg while I was used (badly of course) to way over 1k.

Current SRM flightpath and damage have mortified a brawling option; with all the PPCs/GRs, LRM fire (that I'm finding dangerous but always because of absurd boats) and the seismic module, brawling is harder and less rewarding than go snipey.

[zazz0000]

Yeeeeessss make it 2.0.... My splatcat is standing by....

[IceSerpent]

zazz0000, on 10 June 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Yeeeeessss make it 2.0.... My splatcat is standing by....

Given the current SRM spread, you would be very disappointed.

[Praehotec8]

ByteHacker, on 10 June 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I dunno guys, As a Zombie Cent-A Pilot, I generally get a whole lot of kills in a match(At least 2) now that the srms fly straight. I once got 800+ damage just by using srms and 2 medium lasers. I really don't see what is the big rant about how it is COMPLETELY USELESS. Sure it needs some love, but I disagree that it is useless, especially when you put it on a zombie mech that can take in 5-6 alphas and still have all its weapons that runs at 98 kph. It really is quite devastating when you start hugging them.

They aren't completely useless, but they are very overshadowed by other weapons. As I've posted before, an aSRM-6 with a ton of ammo is 5 tons, produces 4 heat, and does 9 damage spread out over several sections with no chance to concentrate it. A LL does 9 damage for 5 tons, 7 heat, with nearly double the range for full damage, and can be at least partially concentrated on one location (dependent on user skill, etc). What then is the benefit of an SRM6? Sure, the heat is a bit better, but a mech carrying a LL can severely damage you long before you can get into range to use your SRM. I don't think I need note the numbers comparing MLs to SRM2s and 4s....they're even worse. Plus, add in ammo dependency, and risk of ammo explosions.

The missiles are my favorite weapon type, and those of us that enjoy using them would love to be able to use them for more than an adjunct weapon to others. Sure, boating 4-5 SRM launchers can usually strip enough armor to be somewhat useful, but a single launcher just doesn't have that much bite right now. I always think of the SRM-6 launcher on an atlas to be like a desert eagle or similar....a powerful, but short-range secondary gun, which it currently is not. I run an SRM-6 on Misery, and right now it feels like "well, I have the tonnage for it, nothing else really fits there, but if I could I'd replace it."

Similarly, boating them ought to be frightening at close range given their drawbacks. I guess I'm one of the few that (while not running a full splatcat build) felt splatcats were fine. (as an aside, everyone please, please keep running AC40 jagers...XL engines in a large, relatively sluggish mech with oversized and underarmed side torsos....YUM!)

Edited by Praehotec8, 10 June 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Rippthrough]

Yep, splatcats were fine, I never had an issue with them. But then I shot them in the face with PPC's while they were 500m's away. There should be a reward for being able to get in to 200m to engage a mech, and that should be devasting firepower.

Edited by Rippthrough, 10 June 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[keith]

Rippthrough, on 10 June 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Yep, splatcats were fine, I never had an issue with them. But then I shot them in the face with PPC's while they were 500m's away. There should be a reward for being able to get in to 200m to engage a mech, and that should be devasting firepower.

that headshot on glory while streaming was priceless:D

[aniviron]

I'm surprised you are having trouble finding threads with people talking about SRMs. I have seen half a dozen of them since the patch, most with multiple pages of "SRM damage needs to be at least 2" with only one or two people disagreeing in the whole thread.

[HarmAssassin]

People forget that in lore SRMs weren't unguided. The only difference between a streak and SRM2 was that the targeting computer would prevent the streak from launching unless it predicted a 100% chance of scoring a hit. As for the missiles, a Streak missile and SRM were identical in every way. The only difference between a SRM2 and a SSRM2 was the extra half ton of targeting electronics.

As for the SRM flight path diagram shown above, it is missing the convergence to a single hit location found at certain ranges in the old flight path (40m), but is otherwise fairly accurate.

To fix SRMs, they need to increase damage to 2, reduce spread, and possibly use a cone mechanic.

[Voidcrafter]

Well... the other thing that comes to attention to me is that there not few people saying:
"Well I haven't tried them yet/but..." - that's actually part of the issue, for the most people now don't even concidering trying them out.

aniviron, on 10 June 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I'm surprised you are having trouble finding threads with people talking about SRMs. I have seen half a dozen of them since the patch, most with multiple pages of "SRM damage needs to be at least 2" with only one or two people disagreeing in the whole thread.

Well I don't make those things up
And even if you're correct about it, I'll still be shocked that these treads die so quickly...
I mean... if like 90+% of the people on the forums agree, these things should be kept alive, otherwise there is no certainty about weither would they be fixed or no, right?

[Toastersupreme]

Face palm. SRMs are 1.5 damage when did that happen? Why haven't I been paying closer attention. They were 2.4 damage before right? No wonder I cant kill as well in with my JMS-A. I remember being an SRM a while ago. As sated earlier boost the damage to 2/missile. If not make the spread somewhere between where it was and were it is now make it 2.5/missle and make artemis pack tight and fly straight. SRM adds a depth, like don't let that SRM cat near you.

[armyof1]

ByteHacker, on 10 June 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I dunno guys, As a Zombie Cent-A Pilot, I generally get a whole lot of kills in a match(At least 2) now that the srms fly straight. I once got 800+ damage just by using srms and 2 medium lasers. I really don't see what is the big rant about how it is COMPLETELY USELESS. Sure it needs some love, but I disagree that it is useless, especially when you put it on a zombie mech that can take in 5-6 alphas and still have all its weapons that runs at 98 kph. It really is quite devastating when you start hugging them.

So you carry like 6 tons of ammo or more? That would require either no Artemis or a really slow engine. Are you sure you did that kind of damage now while SRMs are just 1.5 damage/missile?

Edited by armyof1, 13 June 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[80Bit]

LRM damage was raised twice, it now feels good again.

Raise SRM damage till it feels good again.

The end.

P.S. Also raise SSRM damage if needed after the "bone" change that pulls damage from CT.

[Homeless Bill]

SRM Damage --> 2.0 / missile. I'd say gradual but we've waited long enough. Just do it and hot fix it back to 1.7 with the weekly sale if it ***** the game up.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 13 June 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[Umbra8]

I have to concur that SRM's need to have more than their current punch to put them where they need to be in the meta. The thing about them is they are the low tonnage high-alpha weapon system for brawling mechs that don't have the spare tonnage or crits for larger more versatile weapons systems (I'm looking at you PPC's and Autocannons). This puts them very much in the baliwack of medium or light mechs. Heavy punch with situational drawbacks (weapon spread, low range, explosive ammo) are what, for me, define a fast medium brawler. Get in, punch hard, and use you superior speed/maneuverability over heavies and assaults to get out again. I defiantly feel a moderate increase in damage for the current wide-spread/no splash SRM's would cause a commensurate resurgence of medium mechs. I would certainly dust mine off.