64 replies to this topic

[Dartangan]

I suggest that PGI make this a higher priority component to implement ASAP, as this will cause a shift in gameplay, probably as big a deal as the implementation of ECM for much of the community.

This will be a big, big deal for light pilots who came on board after the removal of collision. I anticipate that more than half the light pilots out there will either quit the game or find a bigger mech when collision returns, as they won't be able to stop base caps as they currently do, and in a decent match, one collision will = death.

The sooner this gets back in, the less people who filter in as the metagame hits will get turned off, because they won't be used to the easy mode the lack of collision presents.

As a guy who plays everything, but considers Atlas my primary, I can't wait for collision as I'll be able to step on the little buggers and kill them before they get up. As fun as it will be to squash those little guys like we used to and drink their tears which will be flowing big time. I bring this up because if this is implemented AFTER launch there will be A LOT more people playing, and that will equate to A LOT MORE PEOPLE ANGRY WITH THE INCREASED DIFFICULTY AND MORE PEOPLE WHINING AND QUITTING.

I want this game to succeed, way more than I want to prey on unsuspecting light pilots who don't know how hard it will get for them. Collision needs to be in the game. I firmly believe it makes sense financially for PGI to anticipate the poopstorm collision will bring and the earlier it gets dealt with, the less of a negative impact it will have, and if it is in before launch, the foundation of players who will continue to play will be that much stronger.

Hope this helps, and hope we see collision sooner rather than later so that we don't have a big mass exodus that we wouldn't have due to the number of people playing when this happens.

[Haradim]

I think lights and mediums need a significant role revamp before knockdown can really be considered. Swarming damage brawls are the only game we have right now, and only heavies and assaults can really elect to not get into close range and still contribute anything.

I'd go so far as to claim that knockdown probably doesn't make sense in our instant action game anyway. Community Warfare, which will likely require organized teams actively operating as such, might be a better place to implement a mechanic that mandates a much higher level of teamwork and team position awareness.

Edited by Haradim, 10 June 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Wait..... what? You are acknowledging that a substantial portion of the population will hate a feature enough to quit the game and are extolling PGI to get it into the game as soon as possible to limit the damage. Way to sell them on it!

But on a more serious not. Collisions as previously implemented were bad and I do not ever want to see them come back. The only reason to pine for them previously was the difficulty in killing light mechs which (thanks to HSR) is no longer there.

Just make a collision set the lighter mechs throttle to 0 while reducing the heavier mechs by 50% and prevent the mechs from moving through one another. Have the same effect for running into buildings and cliffs. Have damage applied to both mechs based on the tonnage of what they hit, have that damage apply to the section of the mechs that made impact, and call it a day. No crowd control effects in MWO please. Things that cause you to lose control of your mech not due entirely to your own actions (see overheating) are bad.

[Dartangan]

Haradim, on 10 June 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Swarming damage brawls are the only game we have right now, and only heavies and assaults can really elect to not get into close range and still contribute anything.

Community Warfare, which will likely require organized teams actively operating as such, might be a better place to implement a mechanic that mandates a much higher level of teamwork and team position awareness.

And that's exactly why it needs to be done sooner than later to avoid the mass exodus. Also, there's still a place for the really fast guys, just no more god mode. The sooner everyone gets used to that, the better.

[ElLocoMarko]

I've seen a few videos of knockdown while looking for other gameplay videos.
It was an enabler for griefers to do their grief.

Leave it out.

[Dartangan]

The collision was removed, not because of the collision, but the "warping" that happened before they stood up. A lot of the collision you probably hate as well stems from 2 lights working together, one being the "tackler" and the other going in for the leg/cockpit of the helpless mech. The good light pilots will rise to the top, communication and teamwork will benefit..

Collision also affects the bigger guys as they can knock each other over, and will reward better piloting across the board as it should.

ElLocoMarko, on 10 June 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I've seen a few videos of knockdown while looking for other gameplay videos.
It was an enabler for griefers to do their grief.

Leave it out.

Forgot where I was for a minute. Here comes the vocal minority!!! Nerf skill!!! Leave hard things out!!! Don't reward things like good piloting, teamwork, communication!!!

Not gunna feed the trolls anymore, I made my case, gunna go play the game now.

Edited by Dartangan, 10 June 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Dartangan, on 10 June 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

The collision was removed, not because of the collision, but the "warping" that happened before they stood up. A lot of the collision you probably hate as well stems from 2 lights working together, one being the "tackler" and the other going in for the leg/cockpit of the helpless mech. The good light pilots will rise to the top, communication and teamwork will benefit..

Collision also affects the bigger guys as they can knock each other over, and will reward better piloting across the board as it should.



Forgot where I was for a minute. Here comes the vocal minority!!! Nerf skill!!! Leave hard things out!!! Don't reward things like good piloting, teamwork, communication!!!

Not gunna feed the trolls anymore, I made my case, gunna go play the game now.

I know the official explanation, but the real reason it was removed was that a goon squad premade went bowling with a group of devs as the pins. Don't delude yourself. And it needs to stay out for the reasons I went over above.

And how are light mechs god mode now? Is any respectable MWO pilot having trouble killing lights now?

[Sephlock]

No one that would be missed would quit because of knockdown, anyway.

[Dartangan]

Sephlock, on 10 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

No one that would be missed would quit because of knockdown, anyway.

I'm more concerned with the public outcry, more people complaining about the game and how that could influence prospective players' decision to try the game out or pass on it.

[Petroshka]

Sephlock, on 10 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

No one that would be missed would quit because of knockdown, anyway.

Just like the same ones who ragequit after JJ were shaken up. cull the weak annoying.

[Sephlock]

You don't have to worry about the public- MW:O is already one of the top 25 shooters of all time, after all.

Just worry about what the whiners will have done to knockdown.

If history is any indication, they'll get it removed outright for a few months while it is "balanced", then reintroduced, then nerfed within 24 hours...

[Rizzelbizzeg]

LOL Hilarious premise.

Anywho, IMO they have to have better rewards for scouting and light/medium non-damage roles before knockdown is in (we already have collisions) otherwise there will be no reason to bring a light/med ever. I mean, the min-maxers of the boards are already saying that lights and mediums are worthless. There are people who play them, but if we get knockdown before some other incentive to play lights, we won't see a single one outside of the 25 cadet bonus games.

[Screech]

Put it back in the 8man game now. 2 Birds 1 stone.

[Haradim]

Dartangan, on 10 June 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Also, there's still a place for the really fast guys, just no more god mode.

Instant action PUG lights and mediums need to get in close to get the damage and kills\assists\components needed to generate 'bills and XP, and survive only by virtue of speed; teamwork can only be a happy accident. When clipping a mech or terrain (and terrain would have to be re-instated as a dangerous obstacle as well for this to work properly, or lights might ironically end up being the least endangered by typical collision scenarios) results in an immediate death, it becomes another hurdle for weight classes that already have trouble justifying consumption of a player slot.

In organized play, you can assume that not only are players acting as teams (and have comms, etc), but those teams have trained together and know how to operate around one another on each of the maps. You can minimize team-crashes, and can try to set up fights that reduce the need for softer mechs to rely on extreme speed and proximity. You cannot get that in a PUG, where everyone must be either in the thick of things (if they want to get any reward from the fight), or capturing (if they are trolling, basically).

[Locan Ravok]

With HSR one good alpha will kill a light and you would like for the devs to just give you the sweet time to make sure that you will not miss?

Collision should only come back is the meta changes so that lights get OP like they were with full lagshield. Right now it makes no sense.

[Boris The Spider]

Dartangan, on 10 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

As a guy who plays everything, but considers Atlas my primary, I can't wait for collision as I'll be able to step on the little buggers and kill them before they get up. As fun as it will be to squash those little guys like we used to and drink their tears which will be flowing big time.

I would LMFAO if they put in propper collisions that take into account velocity, angle, center of gravity, watching an atlas get bantam kicked down of an alpine mountain by a raven, priceless, roll all they way down getting shot all the way. Now don't go saying the ravens legs would explode or something, becuase if they were that femmer the mech would just drop to peices during normal opperation.

[FupDup]

Dartangan, on 10 June 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Collision also affects the bigger guys as they can knock each other over, and will reward better piloting across the board as it should.

Because Dragon bowling is apparently good piloting.

White Bear 84, on 10 June 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

... the meta is not viable where lights can run up and stand directly below a heavy/assaults cockpit with impunity.

What game are you playing? In the game I play, called Mechwarrior: Online, lights are alpha-strike fodder. Seriously. Shoot them with some ERPPC, Gauss, and/or AC/20. For maximum trolling, take SSRM and BAP. Medium and Large Lasers work as well but they're not as optimal as the aforementioned items.

Edited by FupDup, 10 June 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Knockdown needs to come back it, the meta is not viable where lights can run up and stand directly below a heavy/assaults cockpit with impunity.

And has anyone here actually experienced that awkward moment where two mechs in a confined space try to walk on each other? You cant pass through each other so aside from BOTH mechs reversing you need knockdown. Good example - my phract and cicada in tunnel in frozen. We spent 2 minutes locked and warping because he thought it would be fun charging me. Now if knockdown was in...

Anyway, that said. When it does come back in lights will need a balance and more incentive to run...

Edited by White Bear 84, 10 June 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[HarmAssassin]

Keep knockdown completely out of this game, it will only be abused.

Put collision damage into the game with each mech taking damage based on the tonnage of the mech they hit. Light mech gets in your way, bump into it and it takes more damage than you'll take. Want to ram the enemy because you have lost all your weapons, you can do so... but keep kockdown out of the game.

[FupDup]

HarmAssassin, on 10 June 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Keep knockdown completely out of this game, it will only be abused.

Put collision damage into the game with each mech taking damage based on the tonnage of the mech they hit. Light mech gets in your way, bump into it and it takes more damage than you'll take. Want to ram the enemy because you have lost all your weapons, you can do so... but keep kockdown out of the game.

I agree with no knockdowns, but the damage should be the same to both parties. Light mechs already have less armor, meaning that whatever damage they take will hurt them more. For instance, an AC/20 does 20 damage to anything it hits, be it a Hunchback, Atlas, or anything else. The Hunchie, however, will feel it a lot harder because it has less total armor/health.


I'd also like collisions to make both mechs go to 0% throttle and generate some crazy cockpit shake.