51 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

PPC should be re-balanced separately. I don't want to see JJ shake completely gone because of the immersion. I think it's neat that my mech vibrates as it blast off like a rocketship. I believe that JJ are far from perfect and still need to be addressed; they need more maneuverability and acceleration.

[Soy]

PEEFsmash, on 11 June 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Beef hands is a far better player than you, and in one of the best units. You would be the one crying if you were even good enough to match up at his Elo level.

Well, I personally say he (OP) should stop sucking, but whatever.

Edited by Soy, 11 June 2013 - 04:33 AM.

[buttmonkey]

the shake should stay. granted it may need some tweeks but it makes a lot more sense this way

[El Bandito]

Beef Hands, on 11 June 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

I fully understand that jump sniping was producing an undesirable meta game for everyone and that something had to be done to mitigate the dominance of Highlanders with high damage/pinpoint/ranged alpha strikes. In my opinion JJ shake was not the way to balance the game, as the problem was with PPCs from the get go. Moving PPC heat up and making PPCs spread their damage between a direct hit and splash damage (6 damage direct and 4 damage splash) could easily make pop tarting a much less dominant strategy. Furthermore, adding additional penalties for overheating can also help bring PPC boating under control. As it stands JJ shake is an extremely annoying fix that has made piloting jump capable lights and mediums a nauseating experience. In my opinion weapons balancing should be dealt with by balancing the weapons themselves, not breaking an unrelated and fully functioning game mechanic. Cheers, Beef Hands

No. Heat is never the answer to poptarts because they have time to cool off after jumping back down. Also they suffer no penalty what so ever for overheating, once shut down safely behind the ridge.

Please research more about the topic at hand before you post them. JJ shake should stay FOREVER.

Also, looking at the poll, most of the people who voted want JJ to stay. End of story.

My Cataphract 3D and all my Catapults are not even slightly inconvenienced by JJ shake.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 June 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Beef Hands, on 11 June 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

I fully understand that jump sniping was producing an undesirable meta game for everyone and that something had to be done to mitigate the dominance of Highlanders with high damage/pinpoint/ranged alpha strikes. In my opinion JJ shake was not the way to balance the game, as the problem was with PPCs from the get go. Moving PPC heat up and making PPCs spread their damage between a direct hit and splash damage (6 damage direct and 4 damage splash) could easily make pop tarting a much less dominant strategy. Furthermore, adding additional penalties for overheating can also help bring PPC boating under control. As it stands JJ shake is an extremely annoying fix that has made piloting jump capable lights and mediums a nauseating experience. In my opinion weapons balancing should be dealt with by balancing the weapons themselves, not breaking an unrelated and fully functioning game mechanic.

Cheers,

Beef Hands

Jump Jet shake is "Okay" for me but the crosshair jibbling all over the place seems a bit silly, cockpit/weapon drift is good though. I like the ppc splash idea except, well how is PGI's track record with handling splash damage so far? XD (Also I would say more like 8Direct/2Splash)

PEEFsmash, on 11 June 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

You would be the one crying if you were even good enough to match up at his Elo level.

Self quote hoooo (and spoiler, cause its really not on topic)

Spoiler

Xeno Phalcon, on 06 June 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

I can see it now: ELO 9000 ONLY CORP RECRUITING!
YOUR ELO IS TOO LOW **** OF MY THREAD NOOB!
MY ELO IS HIGHER THEN YOURS, CLEARLY I WIN THIS DISCUSSION!
YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING HOW LONG WITH THAT ELO? LOL YOU MUST SUCK BAD!
no.

[RG Notch]

I can't say I'm shocked at the depths people will sink to in order to defend their crutch. I wonder how many people got their inflated Elo from exploiting, well we can see some from these threads I guess.

Edited by RG Notch, 11 June 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Khyron80]

this needs to be fixed, if i wanted to have this much shaking i'd go and visit my grandpa.

Get ride of this crap!

[Vodrin Thales]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

No. Heat is never the answer to poptarts because they have time to cool off after jumping back down. Also they suffer no penalty what so ever for overheating, once shut down safely behind the ridge.

Please research more about the topic at hand before you post them. JJ shake should stay FOREVER.

Also, looking at the poll, most of the people who voted want JJ to stay. End of story.

My Cataphract 3D and all my Catapults are not even slightly inconvenienced by JJ shake.

While I agree with you about JJ shake, I think you are off on PPC heat being a balancing factor for pop tarts. Prior to the heat buffs on PPC's no one was poptarting despite having a great platform for it (CTF-3D) available and having all of the other factors that led to the popularity of doing it. Heat certainly was a deterring factor, and I think increasing heat output of PPC's would be very effective in reducing PPC boating now.

[HighlandCoo]

Meh - it's silly game about big robots shooting each other. I wonder how much time some players spend in the air, and at a long distance, for them to be so massively inconvienienced by this.

Also, you can bet your last penny that this change was made based on stats taken from the servers and not some forum goers anecdote. I'd imagine something like the number of successful hits made whilst a mech is in the air, from a certain distance (with certain weapons?) which would indicate cleary that this was a big issue.

There is just no arguing with it.

[Calos112]

Yes---do something about PPC balancing. No---do not remove or change JJ shake. Yes---PPC boat stalkers need to be addressed. No---I do not buy into the petty motion sickness argument. No---None of my mechs have been affected by JJ shake. Stop---with trying to find reasons to bring back poptarting. Conclusion---JJ shake was perfect, bring on heat adjustments for PPC boating, keep up the good work PGI.

[Yankee77]

I disagree with the idea that Poptarting was a problem due to too many high alpha builds (primarily due to PPCs).

Yes, high alpha builds with PPCs are a problem, but it's a separate problem from poptarting... and poptarting itself was a problem, a broken game mechanic that needed fixing.

Doesn't matter how much firepower a poptarter can pack in its frame, the very fact that one could poptart broke the maps. Any area designed to promote brawling became a sniping position, because to a poptart ANY cover becomes a sniper position. So instead of having maps with clearly defined sniper perches and plenty of brawling areas, you ended up with maps composed almost entirely of sniper positions, with brawling being relegated to the sub-par role.

That's a complete inversion of what PGI wanted to accomplish, thus why we got the JJ shake. So now if you want to sniper you need to do it the old fashioned way, and brawling has become the primary combat style... AS IT SHOULD BE. It's how it should be as far as PGI is concerned (hence why so many maps promote brawling), and it's how it works in tabletop.

JJ Shake is a good thing and must remain. It could be fixed to prevent motion sickness, maybe, but all other effects must remain. MWO is a better game now, with a far better game balance than it's had in the last 6 months.

Thank you.

[SMDMadCow]

Shake needs to stay.
PPCs need heat added.

[Furmansky]

I never seen JJ shake as a mean to balance pop tarting. I see JJ shake as something that finally addressed gravity force that holds you to the ground... Jump Jets need a wee bit thrust to rise those 65 tons or more to take of the ground don't they? It would be common sense that a powerful enough thrust might cause a wee bit shake and inconvenience to the pilot, or am I wrong?

Well so I'm absolutely fine with shake, don't know maybe some adjusting there and there... I don't mind nor do I care, I will adapt either way. I deal with pop tarts,I deal with PPC, missile and laser boats, splat and streak cats as best as I can, I will deal with JJ shake as well.

So my vote is JJ Shake to stay.
And to note... not that I have even anything against pop tarting, but it just looked a wee bit silly lately watching so many heavy monsters of destruction jumping up and down like on pogo sticks

Edited by Furmansky, 11 June 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Yankee77]

Vodrin Thales, on 11 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

While I agree with you about JJ shake, I think you are off on PPC heat being a balancing factor for pop tarts. Prior to the heat buffs on PPC's no one was poptarting despite having a great platform for it (CTF-3D) available and having all of the other factors that led to the popularity of doing it. Heat certainly was a deterring factor, and I think increasing heat output of PPC's would be very effective in reducing PPC boating now.

Actually, the birth of poptarters came with the improvement to Jump Jets, that's what made them sudden start show up. Then the PPC fix made it the obvious FOTM and it became the gold standard, and by then it was obvious how superior poptarting was, and no matter how much you nerf PPCs poptarting would have been here to stay.

JJ Shake was meant to prevent poptarting, and it accomplished that exceedingly well. Poptarting had to die, and good riddance.

[Chavette]

Itkovian, on 11 June 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Actually, the birth of poptarters came with the improvement to Jump Jets, that's what made them sudden start show up. Then the PPC fix made it the obvious FOTM and it became the gold standard, and by then it was obvious how superior poptarting was, and no matter how much you nerf PPCs poptarting would have been here to stay.

JJ Shake was meant to prevent poptarting, and it accomplished that exceedingly well. Poptarting had to die, and good riddance.

The dark side of nerfing component is other mechs will suffer too that had nothing to do with it. Lights are having it worse and worse already with the state rewinds and ecm nerfs, now they are hard pressed to precision aim with a medlaser while jumping.

[El Bandito]

Vodrin Thales, on 11 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

While I agree with you about JJ shake, I think you are off on PPC heat being a balancing factor for pop tarts. Prior to the heat buffs on PPC's no one was poptarting despite having a great platform for it (CTF-3D) available and having all of the other factors that led to the popularity of doing it. Heat certainly was a deterring factor, and I think increasing heat output of PPC's would be very effective in reducing PPC boating now.

Heat is more of a deterring factor to non-jump PPC boats since they shut down in the open, thus more vulnerable to counter fire. Poptarts are different story.

[El Bandito]

Chavette, on 11 June 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

The dark side of nerfing component is other mechs will suffer too that had nothing to do with it. Lights are having it worse and worse already with the state rewinds and ecm nerfs, now they are hard pressed to precision aim with a medlaser while jumping.

PGI might need to find some other way to reward lights, because pin point shooting during the jump was never the intention.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 June 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Novakaine]

Odd the screen normally shakes like crazy, when the mechs are hit by weapons fire.
Did this cause any nausea?
Or is weapons fire screen shake an unreported ailment also?
Is the overuse of jumpjets and PPC's causing this issue?
Well Dr. Novakaine has a treatment for you.
It's gonna be a difficult and long road ahead of you, but you poptarts can do it.
You're just gonna have to go cold turkey from poptarting.
It's the only way and there are many poptart addiction support groups available.
Remember get a new mech, call a friend and get help.
We are all here you poptarts.
Dr. Novakaine Mechwarrior MD.

[DaZur]

[Dons flame-proof suit)...

I'm calling bull-pucky on 95% of the "motion-sickness" claims and will knowingly and willfully accuse a bunch of people of attempting to leverage the side-effect of a mality to have JJ-shake removed or mitigated.

For those of you who really do suffer motion-sickness issues as a result of JJ-shake, I empathize and hope PGI finds a viable remedy to allow you to enjoy MW:O. For the rest of you charlatans... nice try and shame on you.

Thing is, regardless of how we choose to categorize MW:O it's POV is that of a FPS... FPS are notorious for invoking motion-sickness in those sensitive to this malady. While it's a generalization... Those sensitive to the effects of FPS have already experienced this while playing MW:O and likely, the JJ-shake further exacerbates this issue and I'm sure many sufferers can corroborate this fact.

So to that end... for a jillion people to crawl out of the woodwork and "suddenly" claim motion-sickness secondary to the JJ-shake is nigh laughable.

Dislike JJ-shake and discuss / dispute the implementation and the fall-out... Riding the coattails of a genuine illness is pretty flipping despicable.

[The Strange]

Your poll is lacking. I think PPCs should have their projectile speed reduced back to default, and their heat put back up to normal, since both of those changes were made pre-HSR to make the weapon more attractive. Now those changes are no longer needed and should be reverted since the hit issue has been addressed.

I think the JJ shake is just fine, and yes I do use JJ on several on my Mehcs. Really people, the shake is not a big factor, it is easy to aim still, and you just need to get over it.