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Here Come The Official Heat Penalties And The Nerf To Boating.


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#1 Lefteye Falconeer

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

Have you read the new Gameplay update by Paul?

Here: http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/

It also includes fixes to Streaks and Pulse lasers. And boosts to Machine Gun and flamethrower.

This is kind of a huge deal. Thoughts? I honestly like pretty much all of what I am reading.

Quote

Gameplay Update:

Weapons - We’ve been busy getting more systems implemented for fine tuning our way to launch. Here are some of what’s been going on and is still in production:

S-SRMs are undergoing a revamp on their targeting solutions. There are 7 bones that are randomly selected by each SSRM missile. Right now, those bones are located at joints rather than center-points for each of the components. We are looking at changing that so the bones are placed further apart and more toward the center of each component. We are also looking at weighting the torso bones in a manner that make them not a priority for SSRMs. For example, all components would have a weight of 1.0. The Torsos however would take a weighting of 0.35(LT) 0.3(CT) 0.35(RT). The reasoning behind this weighting is that if all the torsos had an equal value of 1, each missile would have a 3/7 chance of going for a torso. Any sort of torso twist/movement would increase the chance of a missile in flight to hit the CT (since it’s the biggest component on a Mech) if they were to target a side torso.

Flamers and Machine Guns are getting a damage boost. Flamers will be increased from 0.4 damage to 0.7 damage. Machine Guns will be going from 0.08 damage per bullet to 0.1 damage per bullet. (June 18th Patch)

Pulse Lasers are being normalized to have their variances standardized between the different sizes. This is in preparation of them being tuned as we move toward launch. What this directly means is that for now, Small Pulse Lasers will have their damage increased to 3.4 and their heat reduced to 2.4. Large Pulse Lasers will have their damage increased to 10.6 but their heat is also increased to 8.5. This puts all 3 pulse lasers in alignment of having an approximate 1.25 variance for DPS and a 1.3 variance for HPS. Once this is implemented into the live servers, we will be looking at how they play out and making further adjustments as needed. (June 18th Patch)

Heat Damage at High Heat Levels
We now have a system in test that will apply damage to your Mech’s internal center torso if your Mech exceeds 150% of its tolerable heat level. While your Mech is above 150% heat, it will take damage over time. Once your Mech has cooled below 150%, it will no longer take heat damage. Be careful with that override button or high heat alphas when you’re near your max heat threshold.


Heat Penalty

Last update, I let it be known that we would be investigating a heat penalty for high alpha builds. It is understood that this raised the eyebrows of the many but at the same time a lot of assumptions were made which should hopefully be cleared up here.

We considered the notion of doing a max heat threshold reduction but this would have ended up nerfing every weapon system and every Mech in the game. This is why the heat scale penalty path was chosen since it lets us address every weapon individually and also allows us to take into consideration all Mech builds.

How it works:
We set a threshold of the number of weapons fired simultaneously. By simultaneously fired, we mean weapons of the exact same type being fired in under a 0.5 second time range. This 0.5 second time comes from the amount of time between weapon switches when Chain Fire is engaged. Chain Fire is a mechanism meant to help MechWarriors manage their heat and we do not want to punish those who use this mechanic.
If a player fires a number of weapons beyond the threshold, the heat scale will increase significantly for every weapon fired beyond the threshold.

An example:
Mech Model: Hunchback-4P
This Mech (known as the Swayback) is capable of firing 9 energy weapons all at the same time. There are 6 energy hardpoints in the pod on its shoulder, one on each arm and one on the head. The most common build for this Mech is to boat it with Medium Lasers.

We take into consideration that the 6-pack pod is intended to be fired all at once and a player should not be penalized for this. It is for this reason that we would set the Medium Laser threshold to 6; meaning that firing 6 MLs simultaneously will NOT suffer from a heat scale penalty. The 6 MLs will generate the standard amount of heat currently in the game.

The heat scale penalty kicks in when the player fires 7 or more MLs and for each ML fired beyond 7, the heat scale increases. The breakdown would look as follows (Keep in mind, these numbers are for demonstration purposes only):

6 ML fired = 0 heat penalty
7 ML fired = 5 heat penalty
8 ML fired = 10 heat penalty
9 ML fired = 20 heat penalty

To avoid the heat penalty while playing a Swayback is easily avoided if the player fires 6 MLs and waits 0.5 seconds and then fires the remaining 3 MLs. Doing so will result in 0 heat penalties.

How each weapon system will be individually tuned:
Weapons like the PPC would have their thresholds set to 3 with a higher heat penalty per additional simultaneous firing of PPCs.
3 PPC fired = 0 heat penalty
4 PPC fired = 10 heat penalty
5 PPC fired = 20 heat penalty
6 PPC fired = 40 heat penalty

Again, if a player wants to play a 6 PPC stalker, they can freely do so and can avoid heat penalties by triggering 3 PPCs, waiting 0.5 seconds and then firing the next 3 PPCs.

Missile and Ballistic weapon systems will be equally looked at in terms of their heat penalty thresholds.

At the end of the day, some weapons may never see a heat penalty the others will and in the long run, we hope this encourages a more varied build of player Mechs or make players much more aware of their heat management.

I’ll update this post for delivery dates as soon as I have confirmed them.


#2 Ayestes

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

Those details on the Medium Lasers and PPCs make sense to me, I'm just curious what the Large Lasers, SRMs, LRMs, and autocannons would be set at. More details would be nice.

#3 Victor Morson

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:38 AM

Oh God this ****** me off and we need a massive boycott of this immediately. I will be starting one.

This was the worst possible outcome. Capping a limit to the number of guns that can be fired simply removed "Lots of small weapon" smaller variants and is incredibly stupid.

High alphas come from the fact everyone is in an assault 'mech. If they want to do something about high-heat builds, introducing heat effects is something I've never had a problem with; but specifically attacking the number of weapons / repeated instances of weapons on this level is maddening.

The worst part? Most of the really good alpha builds run a whopping 3 guns. Where as, say, the BJ-1X - a 'mech designed entirely to bat numerous instances of the same gun - gets totally shafted by this.

Terrible idea and the dumbest thing PGI has done since nerfing LRMs for 2 months. They need to stop reacting to crying PUGs and start understanding the REAL reasons they're crying. If everyone wasn't in a freaking Stalker or Highlander this wouldn't even be an issue.

Edited by Victor Morson, 11 June 2013 - 12:34 PM.


#4 3rdworld

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:38 AM

How does Paul still have a job?

#5 Mechteric

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:40 AM

There's already a thread to talk about it, so don't be surprised of a moderator locks this one and directs you here:

http://mwomercs.com/...te-11-jun-2013/

#6 Riffleman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

oh noes, if I cant one shot medium mechs, ant 2 shot anything else besides an atlas, I may have to remember gameplay elements that don't amount to hide behind rock, peek out and shoot, collect c bills. Tears will fuel me for eons to come.

#7 StonedVet

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

umm bring on the heat scale penalties! Those who say otherwise are pissed because they enjoy 1 shoting everything in their 6PPC stalker. Bring balance back into the game and learn to play now that these insane builds will finally be under a leash

#8 3rdworld

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostLowridah, on 11 June 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

umm bring on the heat scale penalties! Those who say otherwise are pissed because they enjoy 1 shoting everything in their 6PPC stalker. Bring balance back into the game and learn to play now that these insane builds will finally be under a leash


No I am pissed cause it is a stupid bandaid fix.

Wow you are not going to see 6 ppc stalkers, but they were never the problem anyways. What you will see are more 3 ppc + gauss misery. And 3 ppc gauss highlander cause the changes are doing nothing to them.

Keep projecting.

#9 Lefteye Falconeer

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:54 AM

I am not happy with bandaids. But honestly, anything that limit the actual game of excessive alphastrikers is a good thing.

Keep in mind that even with 4, 5 or 5 PPCs as long as you stagger them with a 0.5 interval you still retain your massive damage/dps. I don't see how this is too bad, considering it can be tweaked on a weapon by weapon basis.

If anything, I think the penalty should kick in with 2 PPCs. That's the standard in Battletech. You can mount 3, you can shoot 3, but there should be a "cost" if you want to alpha them.

Edited by Lefteye, 11 June 2013 - 11:56 AM.


#10 3rdworld

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:57 AM

View PostLefteye, on 11 June 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

I am not happy with bandaids. But honestly, anything that limit the actual game of excessive alphastrikers is a good thing.

Keep in mind that even with 4, 5 or 5 PPCs as long as you stagger them with a 0.5 interval you still retain your massive damage/dps. I don't see how this is too bad, considering it can be tweaked on a weapon by weapon basis.


but they aren't. as long as I only use 3 ppcs, I am completely unaffected. So the Misery is going to swap places with the 3F.

GAME CHANGE.

It wouldn't surprise me to set AC/20s to 1. Must.....save....noobs....

#11 zhajin

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:58 AM

from the sound of it this will have no effect on 3ppc + gauss or 2ppc + 2 erppc (not 100% on this). really this is really just a band-aid solution, like so many others they have implemented recently. by the time they are done we will have a game so complicated by band-**** it will be impossible to play.

wow they censor a i d s (as in plural of band-aid...)

Edited by zhajin, 11 June 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#12 Und3rSc0re

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:03 PM

These changes does nothing it is not even a band aid.

#13 Coralld

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

The heat stacking penalties when Paul first made them known had my self and many other rather worried. However, after this clarification on how at least ML and PPC will function under this new heat stacking penalty has me slightly optimistic. However, more can be done and done better.

Edited by Coralld, 11 June 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#14 Tennex

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

its very unintuitive and clunky convoluted mess. (much like the ECM/BAP system now)

i think they should rethink it

Edited by Tennex, 11 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.


#15 GODzillaGSPB

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

This reads like a dream come true. Seriously, a few of these points I suggested / discussed in threads that suggested them a long time ago. Slowly...it seems we're getting there.

When these changes are in, maybe I'll return to the game. ^^

#16 Bilbo

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:09 PM

View PostAyestes, on 11 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Those details on the Medium Lasers and PPCs make sense to me, I'm just curious what the Large Lasers, SRMs, LRMs, and autocannons would be set at. More details would be nice.


I would guess around 3 for the large energy weapons and missiles as a starting point. Not sure it's necessary to limit the ac's at all.

#17 Otto Cannon

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:12 PM

Great 'fix'. So now boating is reserved for coolant flush users and streaks will be the new comedy weapon.

#18 Sarsippius SulemenagicJacksonIII

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:13 PM

Are the rules set by the weapon or the mech? Seems like each mech will have its own little subset of which weapons it can fire and can change depending. That should make perfect sense to the new player, after they master their feet not matching their face.

#19 3rdworld

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:15 PM

Actually the more I think about it, I doubt people using the 4 PPC stalker will even care.

They normally run 2ER & 2 reg.

Swapping to 4 regular and taking the penalty they create 4 more heat.

#20 RG Notch

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

View Post3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

How does Paul still have a job?

They haven't seen your resume yet. :D





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