91 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Previous to the JJ nerf, the 3D was a mainstay of competitive mechwarrior online. Now that jump sniping is ineffective, it seems like Jagermechs can do the same role better due to having better hard points and hard point placement across variants.

Are any competitive teams using cataphracts in their drop decks still? If so, what variants and load outs? I can see the Ilya being decent as a DPS monster with triple-UAC, but even that is of limited use in the current high-alpha meta, and DPS builds such as the Ilya are much more vulnerable to LRM boats than sniper builds that can effectively ridge-hump are.

[keith]

u prove an amazing point. no matter what PGi does the meta will shift. now its hill humping, even though i haven't played because PGI has lost my fate in being able to balance a game. guess PGI should make it so mechs crawl up a hill now because in realism its harder to go up a hill right:P must nerf ay meta

[JSparrowist]

If the 3D is no longer used in "competitive" MWO because of JJ nerf, then the "competitive" community is lamer than I thought. More proof that they shouldn't have balance influence priority over "noobs" considering they have to use the lamest cheese on cheese builds they can to be "competitive".

[Lefty Lucy]

JSparrowist, on 09 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

If the 3D is no longer used in "competitive" MWO because of JJ nerf, then the "competitive" community is lamer than I thought. More proof that they shouldn't have balance influence priority over "noobs" considering they have to use the lamest cheese on cheese builds they can to be "competitive".

In every game ever competitive teams and players use what's good. Do you think they should continue to use a mech that isn't really useful to the team's strategy any more? Why?

[JSparrowist]

Lefty Lucy, on 09 June 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

In every game ever competitive teams and players use what's good. Do you think they should continue to use a mech that isn't really useful to the team's strategy any more? Why?

I think balance and diversity in matches, not to mention fun, should come before cheese layered cheese on the battle field.

[Lefty Lucy]

JSparrowist, on 09 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I think balance and diversity in matches, not to mention fun, should come before cheese layered cheese on the battle field.

You get to determine how I have fun?

[johnyboy420]

the Phract is fine L2P

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Maybe they should stop sackriding the OP variants of mechs and encourage PGI to make more than a few viable competitive mechs.

**** the 3D

[Soy]

...I'm about as competitive as ever in 3D, more or less.

I don't get what all the hubub is about. But, I think you know that already.

I eat ******* Jagers for breakfast, not poptarts.

update - Lefty, cmon man, you do realize that the majority of poptarters before the patch were just flavormonth bandwagoning hivemind groupthink tryhard failboats, right. Right.

Edited by Soy, 09 June 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[JSparrowist]

Lefty Lucy, on 09 June 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

You get to determine how I have fun?

I'm sorry that you prefer stale and boring ROFLOLSTOMP victories...I like fun myself

Show me where I said I get to dictate your fun.

[IronChance]

LOUD NOISES!

[Und3rSc0re]

JSparrowist, on 09 June 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'm sorry that you prefer stale and boring ROFLOLSTOMP victories...I like fun myself

Show me where I said I get to dictate your fun.

You said not to mention fun meaning you claim it is not fun for lucy to run cheese builds, also if you are not bringing your A game in competition you should not be playing at all. What happens when two good teams with the same meta builds play against each other? You dont get a roflstomp victory you get a very intense match where mistakes can lose the game. Why should meta players play a trash team composition just to roflstomp bad teams in that?

Edited by Und3rSc0re, 09 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Good poptarts are just as effective, they just need to take puke-breaks between matches.

The 3D is still the best heavy in the game competitively. Jagers that aren't AC40 are no threat.

The Jump-Jet thing was stupid because it mainly nerfed lights who shoot on the ascent, not poptarts who shoot at the apex. However, it made everyone who uses jumpjet's experience universally more disorienting and headache-inducing.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 09 June 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[JSparrowist]

Und3rSc0re, on 09 June 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

You said not to mention fun meaning you claim it is not fun for lucy to run cheese builds, also if you are not bringing your A game in competition you should not be playing at all. What happens when two good teams with the same meta builds play against each other? You dont get a roflstomp victory you get a very intense match where mistakes can lose the game. Why should meta players play a trash team composition just to roflstomp bad teams in that?

My apologies then.

Good thing I run with just a few people and pug a lot. MWO is to broken in balance for a true competitive scene.

[The Strange]

If players can no longer jump snipe in a 3D, it means they had no skill in the first place. It isn't hard to jump snipe now, you just have to know how to do it. So either update your skill set, or move along to another build.

[Vercinaigh]

JSparrowist, on 09 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I think balance and diversity in matches, not to mention fun, should come before cheese layered cheese on the battle field.

oh **** sakes I'm sick of people like you. I'm sorry that you suck so much that it doesn't matter what build you use. The top players can beat you in your own mech, in your own build, constantly. they will beat your whole team, **** that, your whole house. there is a reason everyone calls you Kentucky Fried Marik. In upper level play, you pick the best mechs because in upper level play everyone can play everything extremely well, and you gotta try to get as much of an edge as you can, every tiny thing makes a huge difference. Sorry you've never been good enough to experience this but that isn't my problem, nor the problem of the entire competitive community that is growing.

We should not suffer because people like you can't make the cut, get better or move on, stop going into every thread you honestly don't give two ***** about and giving everyone needless **** about how they play this game, move on, go outside, get a life, a girlfriend, something better to do.

To answer OP, honestly you can snipe perfectly fine, all other JJ boats are more effected by this change, it just makes people sick looking at it, so not really useful for long term practice, so it's pretty much heavy snipers like stalkers and Atlas RS, and non missile using brawlers since they tickle, which makes us old brawlers sad panda, miss brawling sniper teams. Oh and the K2 sniper works very well again, love this thing...I missed it

Edited by Vercinaigh, 09 June 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[JSparrowist]

Vercinaigh, on 09 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

oh **** sakes I'm sick of people like you. I'm sorry that you suck so much that it doesn't matter what build you use. The top players can beat you in your own mech, in your own build, constantly. they will beat your whole team, **** that, your whole house. there is a reason everyone calls you Kentucky Fried Marik. In upper level play, you pick the best mechs because in upper level play everyone can play everything extremely well, and you gotta try to get as much of an edge as you can, every tiny thing makes a huge difference. Sorry you've never been good enough to experience this but that isn't my problem, nor the problem of the entire competitive community that is growing.

We should not suffer because people like you can't make the cut, get better or move on, stop going into every thread you honestly don't give two ***** about and giving everyone needless **** about how they play this game, move on, go outside, get a life, a girlfriend, something better to do.

To answer OP, honestly you can snipe perfectly fine, all other JJ boats are more effected by this change, it just makes people sick looking at it, so not really useful for long term practice, so it's pretty much heavy snipers like stalkers and Atlas RS, and non missile using brawlers since they tickle, which makes us old brawlers sad panda, miss brawling sniper teams. Oh and the K2 sniper works very well again, love this thing...I missed it

I stopped reading after "I'm sorry that you suck so much that it doesn't matter what build you use."

Ohh how I wish MWO had a 1v1 mode. Until that happens, keep on with the assumptions.

[Soy]

What the **** is so different that you can't JJ snipe anymore in a 3D. I submit, once more, this as evidence to you and anyone else trying to talk BS:

poptart ppc 3d before patch
recorded may 29th, 5 days before jj nerf patch

poptart ppc 3d after patch
recorded june 4th, THE DAY of the jj nerf patch

So why don't you make a video showing yourself killing a bunch of 3D tarts. Until then I hear you making fun of bad players which really has nothing to do with what build they are using at all.

Edited by Soy, 09 June 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Pale Jackal]

Were too many Jenners jump-jetting over targets and firing their MLs and SLs downwards? Was that the problem?

Was my 4 LL CTF 3D too awesome a sniper? (Back when PPCs produced more heat.)

Was my 2 LL 2 ML 2 LRM10 Catapult too good at jump-sniping?

No, it was high alpha builds that use ballistic style weapons that prompted the nerf, and it ends up nerfing any other build with JJs too.

Maybe the ballistic style weapons should be nerfed, quiaff?

[PEEFsmash]

Vercinaigh, on 09 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

oh **** sakes I'm sick of people like you. I'm sorry that you suck so much that it doesn't matter what build you use. The top players can beat you in your own mech, in your own build, constantly. they will beat your whole team, **** that, your whole house....

In upper level play, you pick the best mechs because in upper level play everyone can play everything extremely well, and you gotta try to get as much of an edge as you can, every tiny thing makes a huge difference. Sorry you've never been good enough to experience this but that isn't my problem, nor the problem of the entire competitive community that is growing.

This is the very-harshly-said truth.

The especially important part is that competitive players don't use cheese builds to become good. We will use whatever build a low or mid-level player uses better than that player. We will even take that low or mid-level player's build all the way up to the top Elo levels. However, at some point, you need to get tiny edges over your opponents, and this is why the best players use the best builds. Once you play competitive 8s vs the best players in the game, giving up even a teensie tiny advantage is a mistake, so we don't do it.

If Elo was public I (or any other top competitive player) would prove this to you by making a new account, using whatever honorific, suboptimal build that some guy used in some book 20 years ago that you can throw at me, and take it to the highest Elo, smacking down mid-level players using "boating" or "sniper" or "cheese" builds all along the way.
Having a mediocre build or an amazing build just DOESN'T MATTER when you can't aim or position yourself properly. Blaming competitive players for carrying themselves to the top with cheese builds is just an attempt to make lower level players feel better about themselves. Are there players who weren't that good, but improved slightly because they used a good build? Sure, they improved a bit, but it isn't like top players tremble at the sight of some PPC poptart that they've never heard of before.

I'm more scared of Soy's 6 Small Pulse Laser Awesome than a no-name's 3PPC 1 Gauss Highlander.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 09 June 2013 - 01:12 PM.