459 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Would you be fine with a system similar to World of Tank, where moving and turning your turret decreases your chance to hit directly where you aim?

I'm not suggesting something as steep as WoT, because sometimes their system seems completely broken (tank 10m in front you, you missed cause you dared move 1 inch to the left), but perhaps in the same vein?

In Counter-Strike, running and shooting definitely reduces your accuracy and it really hurts those using assault rifles and sniper rifles, but SMGs and pistols are less affected by this. Similarly, in MWO, you could had a similar system so that smaller caliber weapons are more accurate on the move and bigger, bulkier sniper weapons require you to stand still for maximum accuracy. This would give brawlers a 2nd life in close quarters, where their shots would be more accurate than snipers while on the move. The ERPPC/Gauss will no longer be able to pinpoint a 45 dmg alpha on the same spot if he moves while shooting.

Docbach actually put in better words what I suggest:

DocBach, on 13 June 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Rather than a completely random cone, I'd rather have an expanded reticule where weapons would only converge so far to where they didn't all hit in the same location.

I don't think that's a half bad idea, any thoughts on this?

Edited by Sybreed, 14 June 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[AnnoyingCat]

I thought our space targeting system takes care of accuracy for us

[Deathlike]

Remove it from the MGs first, then we'll talk.

[DocBach]

Rather than a completely random cone, I'd rather have an expanded reticule where weapons would only converge so far to where they didn't all hit in the same location.

[Sybreed]

DocBach, on 13 June 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Rather than a completely random cone, I'd rather have an expanded reticule where weapons would only converge so far to where they didn't all hit in the same location.

that's basically what I would want too, thx for making it clearer for me

Also, said circle would be wider the faster you move, so a mech going at cruise speed instead of max speed would perhaps be in a better position to fire instantly if needed.

[Unbound Inferno]

Interesting idea, I've thought of something similar in a larger scale but the basic idea is pretty good.

You move, torso-twist or shift your arms and the pinpoint accuracy becomes a cone are you might hit - you need to wait a moment for it to adjust back.

Would drastically harm poptarts tho. Might actually need to get rid of all the JJ nerfs they did if they do this instead as its the same thing - fire JJ, move and adjust aim and the shots go wild.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Cone of fire should be implemented only in a few special circumstances.

1 - When your JJs are burning (as it works now).

2 - When you are running hot (it should get bigger the hotter you run).

3 - Possibly when moving at more than 90% throttle (I don't like this, but it might mollify those who say that moving fast should nerf accuracy, despite the fact that it already does naturally, without arbitrary math).

4 - When your sensors get critically hit your accuracy should suffer (and your radar should be disabled).

The major change I advocate is accuracy penalty when running hot (number 2 above), as part of a suite of penalties including speed reductions, twist/turn rate penalties, etc.

[Vassago Rain]

No.

[One Medic Army]

If such a system were to be implemented, then it should be implemented both individually for every weapon mounted (no more all hitting the same spot) and each weapon should have it's own accuracy coefficient so that their relative accuracy to one another can be tuned.
For instance, the Medium Laser should have a larger cone (higher coefficient) than the Large Laser. Why? Because the Medium Laser is intended to be a shorter range weapon.

As to specifics on the cone's size, every weapon, when aimed dead center on a stationary mech at the weapon's optimal range (270m for ML) should be guaranteed to hit, even at the largest cone size.

This means that missing a target entirely is caused either by the fault of the firer, or by using the weapon outside optimum range.
When firing past optimum, or targeting a small sub-are of an enemy mech then reducing the cone's size via standing still, cooling down, or other such measures would be required.

[Lootee]

Sure why not.

Can't be any worse than bundling every single weapon on your mech together with duct tape to build the super laser from the Death Star happening now.

[armyof1]

People comparing cone of fire with other FPS games seriously need to consider how much our weapons differ compared to the standard assault rifles that will spew lots of bullets like in CoD/CS or similar. Blasting off 6-8 rounds and miss with a couple isn't so bad. But firing MWO's ballistics that have several seconds of recycle rate would be awful when using the same mechanics. Of course someone will mention WoT but until they have JJ tanks that force you to try and hit targets moving quickly and in an erratic manner vertically as well as horisontally, it's most certainly not comparable.

Edited by armyof1, 13 June 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[El Bandito]

Cone of fire is fine, it is what I had been advocating as well. Just add noticeable convergence time on the arm weapons. Torso mounted weapons should only shoot forward.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 June 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

DocBach, on 13 June 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Rather than a completely random cone, I'd rather have an expanded reticule where weapons would only converge so far to where they didn't all hit in the same location.

Something like that? I'd get behind it.

[Fabe]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 June 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Cone of fire should be implemented only in a few special circumstances.

1 - When your JJs are burning (as it works now).

2 - When you are running hot (it should get bigger the hotter you run).

3 - Possibly when moving at more than 90% throttle (I don't like this, but it might mollify those who say that moving fast should nerf accuracy, despite the fact that it already does naturally, without arbitrary math).

4 - When your sensors get critically hit your accuracy should suffer (and your radar should be disabled).

The major change I advocate is accuracy penalty when running hot (number 2 above), as part of a suite of penalties including speed reductions, twist/turn rate penalties, etc.

Sounds like a good way to emulate the accuracy modifiers from TT, I like them.

[El Bandito]

armyof1, on 13 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

People comparing cone of fire with other FPS games seriously need to consider how much our weapons differ compared to the standard assault rifles that will spew lots of bullets like in CoD/CS or similar. Blasting off 6-8 rounds and miss with a couple isn't so bad. But firing MWO's ballistics that have several seconds of recycle rate would be awful when using the same mechanics. Of course someone will mention WoT but until they have JJ tanks that force you to try and hit target moving quickly and in an erratic manner vertically as well as horisontally, it's most certainly not comparable.

No, it will make Mechwarrior, more Mechwarrior-like. Mechs are not men, they shouldn't be dying so fast due to multiple PPCs hitting the exact same spot on the fly.

[Nauht]

Chief, I insist on the cone of fire!

[Sybreed]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 June 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Cone of fire should be implemented only in a few special circumstances.

1 - When your JJs are burning (as it works now).

2 - When you are running hot (it should get bigger the hotter you run).

3 - Possibly when moving at more than 90% throttle (I don't like this, but it might mollify those who say that moving fast should nerf accuracy, despite the fact that it already does naturally, without arbitrary math).

4 - When your sensors get critically hit your accuracy should suffer (and your radar should be disabled).

The major change I advocate is accuracy penalty when running hot (number 2 above), as part of a suite of penalties including speed reductions, twist/turn rate penalties, etc.

interesting suggestions. I would tweak some values here and there, but I would be fine with these ideas!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Oops, forgot my fifth instance where Cone of Fire might work out. Here it is now:

5 - When outside the Optimum Range band of a weapon. Inside minimum range? Add cone of fire mechanics (AC2, Gauss, PPC, I'm looking at you). Outside Optimum but inside Maximum? Then add cone of fire mechanics.

Missiles naturally would be exempt given their extremely hard range limits.

[Monky]

I would be fine with cone of fire in a few distinct situations -

A: Jumpjetting (as is now)
B: Falling (smaller than jumpjetting cone by about 40%)
C: When over 50% of your heat capacity (smaller than jumpjetting cone by about 80%)

I would not be fine with cone of fire in these situations -

A: Standing still (would make game unfun)
B: Walking (would make game unfun)
C: Running (would make game unfun)
D: Heavy damage sustained (penalizes an already hurt mech)

[armyof1]

El Bandito, on 13 June 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

No, it will make Mechwarrior, more Mechwarrior-like. Mechs are not men, they shouldn't be dying so fast due to multiple PPCs hitting the exact same spot on the fly.

Uh yeah, that totally wasn't in reply to anything I just wrote. Random chance to hit/miss with slow firing weapons not equal to random hit/miss with rapid-fire weapons.