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Headspot Of Catapult Too Big?


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#201 Volthorne

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostDarren Tyler, on 20 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Doesn't even matter? That does matter whether you like it or not. And I have a C4 catapult and enjoy it very much.

No, liking the 'Mech is entirely different from dealing with ****** up hitboxes. I love my C1(F) but I ******* hate that the instant I make a piloting error, someone gets a free shot at pulling off a OHKO on me and literally EVERY OTHER 'MECH is exempt from said OHKOs unless their opponent is exremely lucky.

That's not fun. That's just about as ******* stupid as it gets.

Edited by Volthorne, 20 June 2013 - 12:34 PM.


#202 Sheraf

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostVolthorne, on 20 June 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

No, liking the 'Mech is entirely different from dealing with ****** up hitboxes. I love my C1(F) but I ******* hate that the instant I make a piloting error, someone gets a free shot at pulling off a OHKO on me and literally EVERY OTHER 'MECH is exempt from said OHKOs unless their opponent is exremely lucky.

That's not fun. That's just about as ******* stupid as it gets.


I don't have that headshot problem alot with my C4, most of the time I died from losing a side torso or the CT, or someone shot me in the back :ph34r:

#203 Volthorne

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

View PostSheraf, on 20 June 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I don't have that headshot problem alot with my C4, most of the time I died from losing a side torso or the CT, or someone shot me in the back :ph34r:


I'm not even sure how to respond to this (plus how is this even *relevant* to my post?). If someone is killing you from behind, ya dun goofed. If you get killed a lot from ST destructions, you REALLY dun goofed because in my experience it takes a ****-ton of effort on your opponent's part to take down a Catapult by ST.

#204 Sheraf

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostVolthorne, on 20 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm not even sure how to respond to this (plus how is this even *relevant* to my post?). If someone is killing you from behind, ya dun goofed. If you get killed a lot from ST destructions, you REALLY dun goofed because in my experience it takes a ****-ton of effort on your opponent's part to take down a Catapult by ST.


Lot of effort to do that, but not my head :ph34r: That what I was trying to say, I died from my head explode far less than the side torso or the CT.

#205 Volthorne

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostSheraf, on 20 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Lot of effort to do that, but not my head :ph34r: That what I was trying to say, I died from my head explode far less than the side torso or the CT.

I'm not sure whether to be amazed or dumbfounded that you think that's a good thing. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by ST destruction, and those were the instances where I happened to also be legged. Getting killed by ST destruction a lot is not something you should be particularly proud of.

#206 Cubivorre

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:03 PM

This thread is serious business and I think it needs a poll

#207 ExtremeA79

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostVolthorne, on 20 June 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'm not sure whether to be amazed or dumbfounded that you think that's a good thing. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by ST destruction, and those were the instances where I happened to also be legged. Getting killed by ST destruction a lot is not something you should be particularly proud of.


You were legged. Of course you would die by ST, you are vulnerable and easy to hit, and chances are they were up close as well.

#208 Takony

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

View PostDarren Tyler, on 20 June 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:


Um, ELO?


Link the patch notes good Sir where it says that Elo also magically protects the Catapult's head. Assuming that you implied that you have better score than me, oh tell me if I, the lowliest of pirate scum can headshot a Catapult,how is it in the mighty high Elo games?The pros can't headshot? Or they play with heads turned off? Maybe you post that way. My mind is boggled.

Anyway,even if you twist,turn,etc when you shoot,you have to face the opponent for a brief moment,so your argument is kinda hollow,even skilled players will have a vulnerability window sitting in a Cat.

#209 Ngamok

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostSheraf, on 20 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:


Lot of effort to do that, but not my head :D That what I was trying to say, I died from my head explode far less than the side torso or the CT.


I played 8 games last night in all 3 of my Catapults (C1, C4, K2). Not once did I get head shot. If it's that common, it should have happened in at least one game. Of course I was in a 4 man group so maybe that helps.

#210 Corison

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:54 AM

If your in a low ELO.... Then it really doesn't matter what you pilot. :D

In matches where your opponent can actually shoot straight, the Catapult is just a waste of tonnage. I am a pretty poor pilot when it comes to aiming, but even I can head shot a cat about 1 in 3 attempts. If the cat isn't moving, more like 8/10.

The Battletech system was never designed for you to be able to aim at a specific location with ease. MWO failed to adjust for this, and made it even worse by letting how a model "looks" affect the size of its hit locations. These two items combined make the Cat a suicide mech to pilot.

Mind you, They are still very fun but against anyone that knows how to shoot they are toast.

#211 Jestun

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 06:55 AM

View PostShadowVFX, on 14 June 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Exactly. The whole "Cat's are support mechs" argument is so overused and honestly, just a bit naive. Are we to assume that each mech PGI releases is ONLY meant to fit the roll described in the lore? Why even let us customize them then?

Alright everyone, no more PPC Stalkers, only LRMs. Hey AC20 Jager, don't do that! You're our anti-air mech, remember? AA mechs don't use AC20s. Here's some nice AC2's for you to shoot down fighters. What's that? There's nothing to shoot down? Oh well, just pretend there is and shoot the air. After all, that's what the lore says you do.


As naive as thinking that every mech should be able to fulfil every role?

Why even bother with multiple mechs then? Why did they bother to develop them, who would buy hero mechs or mech bays? With just 1 uber-mech people only need 1 paint job, one mech, and multiple sets of weapons... so how does PGI sell MC to pay for the servers, staff wages, etc?

#212 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

View PostCubivorre, on 20 June 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

This thread is serious business and I think it needs a poll



This thread ran it's course 8 pages ago LOL. It is the same opions back and forth and no one is listening to each other. How many pages do we need of. Head is too big, not it's not, Catapult is a support mech only, no it's not... LOL.

#213 ExtremeA79

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostTakony, on 20 June 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Link the patch notes good Sir where it says that Elo also magically protects the Catapult's head. Assuming that you implied that you have better score than me, oh tell me if I, the lowliest of pirate scum can headshot a Catapult,how is it in the mighty high Elo games?The pros can't headshot? Or they play with heads turned off? Maybe you post that way. My mind is boggled.

Anyway,even if you twist,turn,etc when you shoot,you have to face the opponent for a brief moment,so your argument is kinda hollow,even skilled players will have a vulnerability window sitting in a Cat.


ELO can mean you being teamed with terrible pilots which can explain why you see friends in cats dying all the time from headshots while people like me do not experience that at all. You can be up against terrible enemies who don't know how to pilot a catapult or even any mech which can explain why you kill so many cats with headshots, or you are up against pro's who have good aiming and have a good working team which is why you die to head shots.
Then there is the fact that some people just don't know how to pilot a catapult.

BTW, I have about a 1:1 ratio of winning and losing. When I start playing with friends on premades my ratio goes up as I win alot more, then when I pug again I lose for several rounds until my ratio stabilizes.

#214 Corbon Zackery

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

They head of the Catapult is square so it has more surface area. Plus it extends fwd. of the CT so its hit first before the CT on a direct CT hit.

Of course depending on the Catapult you may want to shoot at the box arms since all there hardpoints are there.

#215 Arctu

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

View PostSheraf, on 20 June 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:


The jumpjet help alot, especially for LRM, allow you yo get into the right position you want to launch at. Sometimes just jump and launch LRM make a difference between hit the wall, and able to shoot pass the wall :D

The Stalker has more armor, and big side torsos, but that also where all the weapons are, take one down and it at 50% fire power. Stalker most have 10 LRM tube each arm only compare to 15 of Catapult, with exception of Stalker 3H which has 20 tubes vs. the Catapult C4 which also has 20 tube, but C4 has greater range of torso twist and more speed, ability to jump, can carry more modules.


When talking about LRM, of course you neet to take the Stalker 3H as a reference. Thr 3H has the same 20 tubes as the Catapult C4 and then some additional slots in the side torsos. I consider the Catapult C4 to be the biggest joke of all Catapults. Its the only Cat with a decent amount of tubes for a chassis that is supposed to be THE LRM plattform ... and then it comes with 2 energy hardpoints. TWO! And to make things really hillarious, they are both located in the center torso where you then can decide between having something like 2 medium lasers, small lasers and a tag or a single large laser ...

Could you please explain what you need 120 degree torso twist for in a mech that has only LRMs and then maybe 1 medium laser (because you should equip a TAG in a LRM boat). You can't even use your torso twist to avoid damage because you hit the Catapults center from all directions except when being exactly behind it.

Of course you can disarm a Stalker to 50% by shooting off a side torso. What you should have added to your post is the fact that the damage required to shoot off one side torso of a Stalker is about the same as required to destroy the center torso of a Catapult (its 62 Cat, 60 Stalker on my mechs). As a Catapult gets almost any damage to either the center torso or the cockpit, its a lot easier to kill the Cat than disarm a Stalker (which will then continue to shoot at you with the remaining 50% of its weapons). Oh, and doesn't the Cat has these funny ears which are so damn easy to hit and contain the important weapons as well?

Jumpjets may grant you the option to get a shot off in a few situations where the stalker might not. But lets be honest, this isn't the case often and good LRM boats don't hug a wall somewhere in the background but walk with the group. LRM boats staying behind alone and shooting at great distances are wasting their ammo and also easy prey for light and medium mechs. The same can be said about the speed advantage. You don't need it when you stay with the group. I don't see the point in flanking with LRM Catapults either. All you do is make enemies take another route to your remaining group and be an easy target again. I love killing those stray Cats with my Raven or Trebuchet... its great fun because they can't do sh#t.

At least you got a point with the additional module slots. Since the seismic sensor is available, it actually is useful for a LRM boat.

Edited by Arctu, 21 June 2013 - 01:48 PM.


#216 Ngamok

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:19 PM

I killed a Jenner at 350+ meters with my two center torso medium lasers.

#217 Arctu

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostNgamok, on 21 June 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I killed a Jenner at 350+ meters with my two center torso medium lasers.


Impressive ...

I now understand completely why you do not have problems with your cockpit hitbox in your ELO bracket ...

Edited by Arctu, 21 June 2013 - 01:24 PM.


#218 Volthorne

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostJestun, on 21 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

As naive as thinking that every mech should be able to fulfil every role?

Why even bother with multiple mechs then? Why did they bother to develop them, who would buy hero mechs or mech bays? With just 1 uber-mech people only need 1 paint job, one mech, and multiple sets of weapons... so how does PGI sell MC to pay for the servers, staff wages, etc?

That only becomes a problem if you allow each 'Mech to become a generic gunbag. That would require removing hardpoints. I fail to see the point you're trying to bring up.

#219 ExtremeA79

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostVolthorne, on 22 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

That only becomes a problem if you allow each 'Mech to become a generic gunbag. That would require removing hardpoints. I fail to see the point you're trying to bring up.


You are as blind as a bat.

#220 Skadi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

But I enjoy being called a aimbot everytime I headshot a catapult staring headlong at me refusing to move an inch!





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