42 replies to this topic

[fatcat01]

After reading about protomechs on sarna.net (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ProtoMech) it seemed to me that none of the listed protomechs really matched their description. Instead of being stripped down mini-mechs, they're more like big action figures. Apparently I'm not alone in this; http://mwomercs.com/.../page__hl__lore
But, anyway after seeing the gameplay of Hawken I thought to myself that those mechs kind of match the description of protomechs. Obviously they don't match the canon ProtoMechs at all, but I have an easier time imagining the Hawken mechs running about with full sized battlemechs than the silly looking Minotaur, Harpy or Basilisk etc.

Of coursethe timeline means we won't be seeing protomechs anytime soon.


I'm not going to argue the usefulness of protomechs (I think the idea is sound but the execution is lacking). However I am interested in whether people would accept the Hawken mechs as fulfilling the description of Protomechs

Edited by fatcat01, 08 June 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[DireWolf307]

I never understood the ProtoMechs nor do I like them, so I throw them in the trash bin with the rest of everything from the Jihad and beyond.

[grimzod]

Protomechs were Smoke Jaguar's answer to their major problem: resource shortages. Lots of pilots/aeropilots not enough true battlemechs/omnimechs.

[Faceless Priest]

Protomechs were the clans attempt to make another "new tech" that the IS would have trouble adapting to

[Erwiin]

Never did like ProtoMechs. One of the Battletech ideas which should have stayed just that: an idea.

[Blu C]

Protomechs were an attempt to inject something new and exciting into BattleTech that fell flat on its face. They were supposed to be a half-way between 'Mech and Battlearmor...

The problem is that for anything you would use a Protomech for Battlearmor is almost always better. It is generally harder to kill and Protomechs are often so unmanuverable they don't have any advantage. And if you wanted the bigger guns a Protomech can carry compared to a BA, you are better off with a 'Mech or vehicle anyway.

[Karyudo ds]

fatcat01, on 08 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

But, anyway after seeing the gameplay of Hawken I thought to myself that those mechs kind of match the description of protomechs.

For even better protomechs I suggest the first half of Gasaraki. The mechs were only 5 meters talls, armed like tanks, and able to scale buildings giving them a huge advantage in urban combat. Nothing says urban anti-aircraft like a SAM you can just throw up top when you need it. They weren't really Hawken fast but they were intended for combat over rough terrain. The actual protomechs just looked plain silly though.

[DireWolf307]

Had they looked like they are supposed to be, "stripped down 'mechs", then I probably wouldn't have a problem with them (even though they're an answer to a question no one asked).

It's the fact that they look rediculous while being useless that makes them worthless.

[PANZERBUNNY]

No protomechs.

Thk you.

[Roland]

Same problem as elementals...
It takes FIVE protomechs to equate to the combat capabilities of a single mech.

You can't drop infinite guys in a game server.. so you can't effectively use units like elementals and protomechs, because those units were designed to be dropped in greater numbers to balance out their relative weakness.

[grimzod]

One person commanding a Star of Battlearmor COULD be effective and would be hilarious. Seeing a swarm of twenty five little BA about to swarm all over you is not a good thing. Dispersed damage allocation means the players 'mech' (his star fo BA) would be atritted when shot and he could be the last to go.

Tabletop swarms of BA were a nightmare to deal with unless you had some effective anti infantry weapons of combined arms to deal with them.

[Arnie1808]

Best thing to do with the Protomech's is =

[wpmaura]

fatcat01, on 08 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

After reading about protomechs on sarna.net (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ProtoMech) it seemed to me that none of the listed protomechs really matched their description. Instead of being stripped down mini-mechs, they're more like big action figures. Apparently I'm not alone in this; http://mwomercs.com/.../page__hl__lore
But, anyway after seeing the gameplay of Hawken I thought to myself that those mechs kind of match the description of protomechs. Obviously they don't match the canon ProtoMechs at all, but I have an easier time imagining the Hawken mechs running about with full sized battlemechs than the silly looking Minotaur, Harpy or Basilisk etc.

Of coursethe timeline means we won't be seeing protomechs anytime soon.


I'm not going to argue the usefulness of protomechs (I think the idea is sound but the execution is lacking). However I am interested in whether people would accept the Hawken mechs as fulfilling the description of Protomechs

I hate them and elementals

[wanderer]

DireWolf307, on 08 June 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I never understood the ProtoMechs nor do I like them, so I throw them in the trash bin with the rest of everything from the Jihad and beyond.

Ironically enough, the original ProtoMechs were designed to deliberately be cruddy- so the Clans would reject them, leaving them to the Scientist Caste to do with what they will. They go from pathetic to outright dangerous things in the Wars of Reaving later on, especially once you start seeing them occupy the 10-15 ton bracket. The Svartalfa is one example of a properly refined ProtoMech later on, and they're terrifying. Small, hard to hit, capable of taking a pair of Gauss hits to the main body and remaining fully functional while unleashing enough laser or LRM pain to easily match most light 'Mechs...and they attack in groups of five.

Edited by wanderer, 08 June 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[Blu C]

wanderer, on 08 June 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Ironically enough, the original ProtoMechs were designed to deliberately be cruddy- so the Clans would reject them, leaving them to the Scientist Caste to do with what they will. They go from pathetic to outright dangerous things in the Wars of Reaving later on, especially once you start seeing them occupy the 10-15 ton bracket.

However as I understand it the 10-15 ton bracket is no longer ProtoMechs and instead has entered the UltraLight 'Mech territory, so they still are not technically ProtoMechs.

[DireWolf307]

This all makes my head hurt like the idea of "Colossal" >100t mechs.

[wanderer]

Blu C, on 08 June 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

However as I understand it the 10-15 ton bracket is no longer ProtoMechs and instead has entered the UltraLight 'Mech territory, so they still are not technically ProtoMechs.

Nope. 10-14 tons are the top tier for a Proto, while 15 tons is where you see the beginnings of so-called "ultralight" 'Mechs. The Svartalfa at 14 tons is the Atlas of Protomechs.

[wanderer]

DireWolf307, on 08 June 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

This all makes my head hurt like the idea of "Colossal" >100t mechs.

Honestly makes sense when you actually read the construction rules. 105-200 tonners follow some distinctly different rules, including being too big to use jump jets, a more spacious (but far heavier) internal structure, etc. etc. As a result, there's a lot they can't do compared to even an assault 'Mech, including being airdropped (more than once ). Just like ProtoMechs, they're sharing a limb-based movement system, but diverge in significant ways thereafter.

[fatcat01]

wanderer, on 08 June 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

The Svartalfa at 14 tons is the Atlas of Protomechs.

Can't find anything about the Svartalfa on Sarna; got any links where I can get some more info?

[wanderer]

fatcat01, on 08 June 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Can't find anything about the Svartalfa on Sarna; got any links where I can get some more info?

This should help. There's also an LRM variant that carries two Clan LRM-15s with ten shots apiece and lighter armor.