174 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Cybermech, on 15 June 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

do you even know what skill is?
cause for the last few months this game had not required anyone to have any skill what so ever.

Jump Jet sniping is not a valid tactic. don't care who says it is.
There are 2 things that have been ruining MW games for a long time.
Poptarting and lagging over the hill, alpha strike then reverse back over the hill.
Both require little skill and anything that disrupts this behavior is a +

This is called Berm Drills and is a present Armor tactic. So it does no belong in your No Skill list. Pop Tarting is a Jumping version of he same tactic, with the only difference that a Mech was not supposed to be shooting during a jump.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 June 2013 - 04:01 AM.

[Chemie]

so when you dumb a game down to the lowest skill, such that no skill is required, what determines the outcome of a game?

Edited by Chemie, 15 June 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[tenderloving]

Here's some questions for the OP:

1. Have other games ever had balance issues?

2. Have these balance issues ever been the result of poor class/weapon/level design?

3. Have the developers of this game ever made a weapon balance mistake or other balance mistake?

Edited by tenderloving, 15 June 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Rhent]

There was ZERO skill in Poptarting. It was an extremely low risk high reward maneuver, that has been turned off in prior versions of Mechwarrior. Crap trojan thread if I've ever seen one. Quit sucking and lean how to maneuver and shoot, rather than being a 2 button mechwarrior.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xmith, on 14 June 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

You can have the appearance of weapon balance but because of the skill level of players, the game itself can never have balanced play.

Weapons are not OP, the skill level of players makes the game appear unbalanced. Take the jump snipers for example. People shouted and cried that they were making the game unbalanced. It seems most hated jump snipers. People were full aware that there are snipers in the game. Knowing this fact, they still chose not to use cover. What were the snipers suppose do? Tell them to get back under cover before they shoot them? All this has been discussed and the snipers were basically saying what not to do if you don't what to be sniped.

That was just one example. Some recent nerfs seem to be geared toward the less skilled. In itself it seems to make sense. The devs trys to help out people so that they can have fun and enjoy the game. It's a losing cause because competitive player skill level will never happen. Especially if PGI is working toward a high player count.

Yes. Because EVERYONE logged into MWO to find static positions to poptart from for 15 minutes a match.

Boring much? I am guessing you are sad because your "uber-skill" got exposed as a myth with the jump shake? We still have a guy who snipes just fine in our unit. The secret? He's actually GOOD to begin with, and not cheezing a broken Metal to claim "skillz".

[Kiiyor]

Xmith, on 14 June 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

You can have the appearance of weapon balance but because of the skill level of players, the game itself can never have balanced play.

Weapons are not OP, the skill level of players makes the game appear unbalanced. Take the jump snipers for example. People shouted and cried that they were making the game unbalanced. It seems most hated jump snipers. People were full aware that there are snipers in the game. Knowing this fact, they still chose not to use cover. What were the snipers suppose do? Tell them to get back under cover before they shoot them? All this has been discussed and the snipers were basically saying what not to do if you don't what to be sniped.

That was just one example. Some recent nerfs seem to be geared toward the less skilled. In itself it seems to make sense. The devs trys to help out people so that they can have fun and enjoy the game. It's a losing cause because competitive player skill level will never happen. Especially if PGI is working toward a high player count.

Using jump snipers is a very poor example. People not using cover? Well, you are correct. The only way to deal with a jump sniper was to actually cower behind cover, and not expose yourself, ever.

Players not using cover wasn't the issue. The issue was that jump snipers had near absolute control over the battlefield, wih almost no drawbacks. They could go anywhere, fire from anywhere, and fill you with gauss and PPCs before you could react...

...And they still can. They just need to fire on the way down. It's all to do with that player skill thing you mentioned.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 15 June 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Using jump snipers is a very poor example. People not using cover? Well, you are correct. The only way to deal with a jump sniper was to actually cower behind cover, and not expose yourself, ever.

Players not using cover wasn't the issue. The issue was that jump snipers had near absolute control over the battlefield, wih almost no drawbacks. They could go anywhere, fire from anywhere, and fill you with gauss and PPCs before you could react...

...And they still can. They just need to fire on the way down. It's all to do with that player skill thing you mentioned.

that and pretty obvious certain "pro-gamers" were still tweaking shader files and other things to "clear up the view" to allow shots where people playing with stock setting could not even SEE the other mechs. (along with other possible outright hacks)

[HiplyRustic]

I have an idea; every single person who posts or has posted in these forums suggesting just how skilled they are at this game should be forced into one bracket where the rest of us get to spectate whenever we choose and post vids/commentary as we see fit.

[Fate 6]

Xmith, on 14 June 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

You can have the appearance of weapon balance but because of the skill level of players, the game itself can never have balanced play.

Weapons are not OP, the skill level of players makes the game appear unbalanced. Take the jump snipers for example. People shouted and cried that they were making the game unbalanced. It seems most hated jump snipers. People were full aware that there are snipers in the game. Knowing this fact, they still chose not to use cover. What were the snipers suppose do? Tell them to get back under cover before they shoot them? All this has been discussed and the snipers were basically saying what not to do if you don't what to be sniped.

That was just one example. Some recent nerfs seem to be geared toward the less skilled. In itself it seems to make sense. The devs trys to help out people so that they can have fun and enjoy the game. It's a losing cause because competitive player skill level will never happen. Especially if PGI is working toward a high player count.

Not sure if trolling. PPCs have infinite ammo, and are nearly instant speed. Cover works against LRMs because they have travel time and need a lock. Cover working against PPCs is the same as saying "sit behind that rock for the entire game and don't come out, just afk there while our light caps Theta and Kappa and we get a free win"

Edited by Fate 6, 15 June 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

that and pretty obvious certain "pro-gamers" were still tweaking shader files and other things to "clear up the view" to allow shots where people playing with stock setting could not even SEE the other mechs. (along with other possible outright hacks)

Oh man, that used to be so fun on Alpine. Guys 900+ meters away shooting me before they even come out of the draw distance on my screen.

[Zerberus]

HiplyRustic, on 15 June 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I have an idea; every single person who posts or has posted in these forums suggesting just how skilled they are at this game should be forced into one bracket where the rest of us get to spectate whenever we choose and post vids/commentary as we see fit.

Great idea, though it would be pretty boring, because by their own admission half of them don`t even play

[Stoicblitzer]

Neverfar, on 14 June 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Wrong, OP. Very wrong.

There was not much skill™ in hopping up and down behind a rock and getting liquid-smooth accuracy while doing it, overheating comfortable behind cover. It was easy to do, repetitive and stupid, and I and many other people did it ourselves to demonstrate it. It was just a boring game mechanic that had to be followed, imitated, or at least reacted to because of its overuse and its disappearance by and large has helped the game.

So, no. You are using a very simplistic narrow and incorrect assumption.

i agree. the game is better off without jumpsniping. Their means of getting rid of it was poorly thought out but it can hardly be argued that the game is less fun now than before. However, last night i played for several hours and i saw many stk with PPCs including myself. i was also running a hgn with 3 Erppcs to level it out. the hgn is surprisingly inefficient. we all knew it was right-sided (except p2w model) but it's slow and hot and hard to shoot with mix of arm/torso ppcs. stk so much better even without the jump jets.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 15 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Oh man, that used to be so fun on Alpine. Guys 900+ meters away shooting me before they even come out of the draw distance on my screen.

or you being behind cover, and they somehow knowing exactly where you are, so that regardless of how random you make your exit (which side, how long) they were perfectly timed with the jump snipe to nail you. And oddly, from 1200+ meters every single shot from 3 differing mechs nailing the EXACT same torso.... (because they all happened to just be jumping at the time you exited... bored and playing hopscitch, I guess?)

Yeah. No cheats and hacks there!

[Joseph Mallan]

Fate 6, on 15 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Oh man, that used to be so fun on Alpine. Guys 900+ meters away shooting me before they even come out of the draw distance on my screen.

Alpine! Dude I had fun with seeing players 500M out on Caustic... In the open! Closed Beta... Fun Times.

[CHWarpath]

Xmith, on 14 June 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

You can have the appearance of weapon balance but because of the skill level of players, the game itself can never have balanced play.

Weapons are not OP, the skill level of players makes the game appear unbalanced. Take the jump snipers for example. People shouted and cried that they were making the game unbalanced. It seems most hated jump snipers. People were full aware that there are snipers in the game. Knowing this fact, they still chose not to use cover. What were the snipers suppose do? Tell them to get back under cover before they shoot them? All this has been discussed and the snipers were basically saying what not to do if you don't what to be sniped.

That was just one example. Some recent nerfs seem to be geared toward the less skilled. In itself it seems to make sense. The devs trys to help out people so that they can have fun and enjoy the game. It's a losing cause because competitive player skill level will never happen. Especially if PGI is working toward a high player count.

This post and thread is a whole lot of nothing.

[Soy]

Neverfar, on 15 June 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Look at this skilled™ poptarter. Look at him and laugh.

I can't fully believe even the densest poptarter can be this dense and associate hopping up and down behind a rock directly with his "skill" level.

Get. Over. Yourself. Already.

It is said that Emperor Nero's last words, after all the bad things he had done, and was coming to a very well-deserved end, were "The world loses an artist." I feel that's how narcissistic the poptarters are being. "Waaaah all skill is gone, the world is losing its skill" post-nerf.

Chemies, guy ur referrin to, a good player btw.

Also tarting isn't dead, it's just not for players whos skill lies in other areas, nor their motivation or util of satisfaction [ie having fun].

Some of the best tarts I've seen actually don't even enjoy the tactic.

The vast majority of tarts I've seen were baddies struggling to maintain the status quo bro and promptly moved the **** on asap.

Edited by Soy, 15 June 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[PEEFsmash]

M e g a M a n X, on 15 June 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Really. Start talking together high-level players (you know them.. wait, i should join them too haha) Instead of just disagreeing/complaining. Then let's listen to what you want, what you have to say. .

This was a good post and an idea I have been thinking about for quite a long time. I think now you have given me the motivation to do such a thing.

HiplyRustic, on 15 June 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I have an idea; every single person who posts or has posted in these forums suggesting just how skilled they are at this game should be forced into one bracket where the rest of us get to spectate whenever we choose and post vids/commentary as we see fit.

This would actually be great fun, and I would gladly participate.

[BigBadHarv]

agreed with 100%
if you are solo dropping - winning is luck.

[PEEFsmash]

BigBadHarv, on 15 June 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

agreed with 100%
if you are solo dropping - winning is luck.

False, Many top players maintain a winrate of over 75% even when solo pugging. During the medium leaderboard tournament I went 55-13 in solo pug matches.

[Koreanese]

Wow there are so many scholars here. Skill is skill. Cheese is cheese. Combine both and you get cheesy skillet!

BigBadHarv, on 15 June 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

agreed with 100%
if you are solo dropping - winning is luck.

damn I must be the luckiest man alive. How come I dont win any lotteries?