174 replies to this topic

[Volthorne]

Mister Blastman, on 15 June 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Lots of hate for the skilled. It is clear what utter crap like WoW did to the gaming world. It used to be back in the day if you could pwn at Quake 1/2/3 or Unreal Tournament, you were respected. Nowadays, though, if you pwn at anything you're tied to a stake and lit on fire as it is "evil" and despicable to try and be better than anyone else.

So much for working hard and trying to better yourself at anything.

I rocket-jumped to school uphill both ways through boiling lava, just so you know. Also wrecked my fair share of face in Quake 3 Arena (near untouchable with a railgun).

Please tell me more about "bettering myself". Just don't be a condescending [redated]

Edited by miSs, 17 June 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[Sam Slade]

The ego-bloat is starting to overbalance the forums... soon they'll colapse under the weight of arbitrary invented numbers.

As to the uberskillz folks that keep telling us they're paragons of intellectual virtue and have an omniescent knowledge of game production due to their super-clicky(I recall one of the illustrious leetskillz equating actions per minute to skill in another post...) abilities; I suggest you start a lobby group with your own forum and then hold a vote to see who gets to be in charge.

To everyone not planting their flag in the 'I'm uberskillz so I'm the most smartest' camp; why are you reading this thread!?! Don't feed the trolls!

[Black Templar]

Victor Morson, on 14 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Balancing anything from forum complaints is a bad idea. I don't mind the jumping nerf to be honest, but I've long held that they just need to buff the infighting weapons - Pulse, Ballistic, SRM - and it would have resolved itself. Other changes, however, concern me... like when they jumped on LRMs due to people not getting how they worked, or this completely backwards mind boggling "anti-alphastrike" system PGI is working on, crippling 'mechs that aren't even that good.

I've said it before but I'll say it again, they need to open a dialogue with the best teams in the game right now and take their input as the most valuable. They understand the game. Yes, you might be worried about offending the PUGs PGI, but they want a balanced game too, even if they have horrible ideas of how to balance it. I'm sure they'd be happy if great players help steer your future decisions in the long run.

thank you for being a wonderful human being.

[Zerberus]

Xmith, on 15 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Mobil long range warfare is needed along with the brawling and mid-ranged combat.

What about Exxon and BP long range warfare? Or don`t they have a team?

Sorry, couldn`t resist, ate a clown for breakfast

Edited by Zerberus, 16 June 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 15 June 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Lots of hate for the skilled. It is clear what utter crap like WoW did to the gaming world. It used to be back in the day if you could pwn at Quake 1/2/3 or Unreal Tournament, you were respected. Nowadays, though, if you pwn at anything you're tied to a stake and lit on fire as it is "evil" and despicable to try and be better than anyone else.

So much for working hard and trying to better yourself at anything.

In my experience, people who truly "pwn" at anything don't need to advertise. Those who talk the most, tend to walk the least.
The amount of people who consider themselves "Skilled" because they could poptart is truly staggering. That they expect to be "respected" for making the game pogostick v pogostick, is truly idiotic.

Considering oneself to have accomplished anything for playing a videogame? Wow, there was a time where we respected people who actually accomplished something. Being good at entertaining yourself is not quite Nobel material.

Black Templar, on 16 June 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

thank you for being a wonderful human being.

Problem with the concept of that post is that deciphering who are truly the "best" teams, and who are just best at abusing the Meta seems to be pretty tough.

People who abuse the meta are the LAST ones I would want trying to "balance" the game.

[Zerberus]

Mister Blastman, on 15 June 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Lots of hate for the skilled. It is clear what utter crap like WoW did to the gaming world. It used to be back in the day if you could pwn at Quake 1/2/3 or Unreal Tournament, you were respected. Nowadays, though, if you pwn at anything you're tied to a stake and lit on fire as it is "evil" and despicable to try and be better than anyone else.

So much for working hard and trying to better yourself at anything.

Actually, most of the the hate is for unwarranted, condescending, elitist, holier than thiu BS. You know, the exact same type of statement that regularly starts physical altercations among those of lower intellect, and is considered neanderthal behavior by those of higher intellect.

There`s a difference between saying "maybe you`re doing something wrong" and "Dude, youre a ******* noob, I wanna see your Elo before I talk to you anymore"... which if those Modus Operandi is more out of control here??

It is no secret that a significant part of the international community (read: people that speak more languages than just english and do not live in north america) openly recommends the game to players, while recommending that they stay far away from the preposterous elitism and bile-spewing that happens every time a self-proclaimed "high elo player" (self proclaimed, because, well, PROVE IT!!") like peef gets on an ego trip and acts like he`s the only one that knows jack **** about this game. Yeah, he may be a good player... but he still acts like a 5 year old **** everytime somebody disagrees with him about anything balance related.

And that`s what literally thousands of players have a problem with. ********. Not good players.

Case in point: almost nobody hates koreanese, and he could probably smoke almost anybody here in a fair fight, or at least give them a run for their money. But if he`s so good, why don`t we hate him? He clearly has mad skills...

Becasue he`s not a condescending, elitist ***** in 99% of his posts, that`s why. I would drink a beer or 2 or 3 with koreanese. Someone talking to me in RL like Peef does to everyone here would simply get the glass smashed across his face and be force fed the shards. Does that make me right? No, but it clearly definenes which boundary was crossed, that it was massivele overstepped, and that the heavy retaliation that was likely promised at an earlier point in such a conversation was not a joke. Intelligent creatures would learn from such an experience.

PS: the only reason I mention Peef specifically is that he is both a prime example of said behavior and he also managed to be the only one that showed up on radar as clearly attacking me from a position of outright ignorance in another thread a few weeks ago. And he continues to do so to anyone that disagrees with him on a regular basis. If he would tone it down for a week I`d probably forget about him, too.

Edited by Zerberus, 16 June 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Soy]

I like all the people who try and tear down others in this thread in order to validate themselves...

Kinda ironic since they claim that the tryhards motivation of epeen is essentially the same thing...

HOW BIZARRE

Edited by Soy, 16 June 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 16 June 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

I like all the people who try and tear down others in this thread in order to validate themselves...

Kinda ironic since they claim that the tryhards motivation of epeen is essentially the same thing...

HOW BIZARRE

depends on what one considers "tearing down".

I got no issue with actual skill players (well, a douche is a douche no matter the skill, but anyhow...).
I got little use for forum warriors bragging about their skill and expecting me to give a flip.
(one will also note I never brag about my skill (which is middle of the pack on a good day, artificially inflated to sorta good when I am spot on, and I face morons), because I am happy enough in life I don't need epeen to feel successful)

If lolling and trolling those who need to inflate their egos the same artificial way they likely inflate their scores is tearing down, then I suppose I am indeed guilty.

[Zerberus]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

If lolling and trolling those who need to inflate their egos the same artificial way they likely inflate their scores is tearing down, then I suppose I am indeed guilty.

I would go so far as to say I am PROUD to be guilty of that, because somebody needs the make sure the monkeys don`t get out of their cage, which happens to be next to the AK-47 rack

[Soy]

Sounds like an impasse to me, best move along unless you get off to Jerry Springer type antics; I know I do.

Edited by Soy, 16 June 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Xmith, on 14 June 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

You can have the appearance of weapon balance but because of the skill level of players, the game itself can never have balanced play.

Weapons are not OP, the skill level of players makes the game appear unbalanced. Take the jump snipers for example. People shouted and cried that they were making the game unbalanced. It seems most hated jump snipers. People were full aware that there are snipers in the game. Knowing this fact, they still chose not to use cover. What were the snipers suppose do? Tell them to get back under cover before they shoot them? All this has been discussed and the snipers were basically saying what not to do if you don't what to be sniped.

That was just one example. Some recent nerfs seem to be geared toward the less skilled. In itself it seems to make sense. The devs trys to help out people so that they can have fun and enjoy the game. It's a losing cause because competitive player skill level will never happen. Especially if PGI is working toward a high player count.

I disagree it is the players, but rather believe it is the amount of control players have over creating their mechs. The Mechlab is the real problem.

Allowing one player to take Dual Gauss on their Jager, while another takes a medium brawler with the average 40 CT armor is inviting diaster. The jager player will 2 shot the medium player, and right there my friends, you have MWO "balance" in a nutshell.

Stock mechs and better matchmaking will go a long way to helping, but you just can't fix stupid atm.

Edited by lockwoodx, 16 June 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

psssssh.

Springer is amateur hour.

Watch some old
Morton Downey, Jr.

for quality trash!

[HiplyRustic]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

If lolling and trolling those who need to inflate their egos the same artificial way they likely inflate their scores is tearing down, then I suppose I am indeed guilty.

I plead guilty. In fact, let's add "with malice aforethought" to the charges when they come to me. I have no use, at all, for the "my ELOngated e-peen is massive, so **** up and pay attention you n00blet" player. I have even less (somehow managing to have less than zero) use for forum warriors who ride along behind them, parroting them like they are disciples of the e-peen in question when, in reality, I suspect they are only trying to get their own e-peens stroked through association.

That doesn't mean I hate skilled players of video games, in fact quite the opposite. I enjoy seeing people with genuine skill do their thing, and when I was gaming seriously hard in the PvP/RvR world I was a couple of notches above "doesn't suck" myself. So I have no hate on for skill. I do have some for loudmouthed braggadocio and forum douchebaggery.

So I will, from time to time, indulge in a little forum PvP...and it's a 99:1 bet that if I do it wasn't accidental

Edited by HiplyRustic, 16 June 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[HiplyRustic]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

psssssh.

Springer is amateur hour.

Watch some old
Morton Downey, Jr.

for quality trash!

^^ This man knows. ^^

[Livewyr]

How to know if a weapon is unbalanced:

PPC................vs....................Gauss
10dmg.....................................15dmg(50% more dmg)
7tons (46% of GR weight).......15tons
3crits(43% of GR size)............7crits
8heat......................................1heat (88% cooler)
∞APT(∞ more ammo).............10APT
2000spd(66% faster)..............1200spd

(Then we add in that Gauss Rifles explode and PPCs have 90m min range)




Cost of mounting the weapons on a mech, with assumed completely sustained fire. (Never stop firing...until ammo runs out)
Cost of mounting a Single PPC on a mech:
7 tons
3 critical spaces.
(20 HS are provided by engine DHS)

Cost of mounting a single Gauss Rifle on a mech: (We'll call for 4 tons of ammo as a mean for a longer fight)
19 tons
11 critical spaces.
(Optional Case for torso mount)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost of mounting 2 PPCs on a mech:
28 tons (MW:O DHS)
48 critical spaces (DHS)

Cost of mounting 2 Gauss Riles on a mech: (with 4 tons ammo each)
38 tons
22 critical spaces
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost of mounting 3 PPCs on a mech:
49 tons (MWO DHS)
93 crits (DHS)
Not possible for sustained recycle fire- insufficient critical spaces.

Cost of mounting 3 Gauss Rifles on a mech:
54 tons
33 crits
Possible on future assault mechs- Not possible right now, at all.
-------------------------------------------

Mounting more PPCs = possible for shorter engagements.. such as what we have now.
Mount more GRs = simply impossible after 4. (and 4 only on a 100 ton mech with 4 Hardpoints over 2 torsos and 2 arms.. can't have two hardpoints in same area)

Bottom line:
PPC:
Easier to mount
Never runs out of ammo
No personal risk.
----------------------------------
Didn't need to be uberskilled to figure that one out.

[HiplyRustic]

Livewyr, on 16 June 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

How to know if a weapon is unbalanced:

PPC................vs....................Gauss

Didn't need to be uberskilled to figure that one out.

Oh I don't know...I think you dramatically minimized the heat...or lack of it...issue with the PCC vs the Gauss.

[Bishop Steiner]

HiplyRustic, on 16 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Oh I don't know...I think you dramatically minimized the heat...or lack of it...issue with the PCC vs the Gauss.

easy fix. reduce gauss cooldown by 1 second, or double or triple gauss hitpoints. Who is who's daddy again?

Also... MEch with 2 ER PPC vs Mech with 2 Guass (K2 vs Gaussapult) who is more seriouz biznezz?

Exactly.

Again, and as before, don't hate teh weapon, hate the system that allows metarapers to mount 6 of them, and alpha with impunity. Mechs with 2-3 are solid, but hardly fear inspiring. MEchs with 2 Gauss or AC/20? Make people poo their pants.

[Victor Morson]

Zylo, on 15 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

One could easily argue that a player boating the most overpowered weapons could appear to be skilled.

None of the weapons are presently overpowered. Some need buffs badly, but none are OP.

The only reason certain weapons feel overpowered is because, again, everyone is driving 85-100 ton 'mechs. As long as every single person is in an assault, you could gimp every weapon in the game and you're still not going to get the results you want.

There's a ton of big guns out there because there's a ton of big 'mechs out there, nothing more. Or are you really going to say that a Treb running 1 Gauss and 1 PPC with an XL engine is the greatest threat to balance ever?

'mechs like the K2 might even make a come back. I bet everyone that whined about the K2 misses it now.

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 June 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Livewyr]

HiplyRustic, on 16 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Oh I don't know...I think you dramatically minimized the heat...or lack of it...issue with the PCC vs the Gauss.

Hmm.. yeah high-ish heat versus
2x the weight
2x the size
Explosive Weapon
Limited Ammo

(It used to be "high" heat... and that was far closer to balanced)

-----------------

Then we can compare it a little closer to the AC10
same damage
almost 2x the weight
over 2x the size
limited explosive ammunition
and a litle less than half the heat.

(Also, heat becomes much less of an issue when everyone and their mother can mount DHS..)

[cyberFluke]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

that and pretty obvious certain "pro-gamers" were still tweaking shader files and other things to "clear up the view" to allow shots where people playing with stock setting could not even SEE the other mechs. (along with other possible outright hacks)

And still are. River City Night? Just turn gamma and brightness up, River City Day.

Buildings in the way of your view? Turn the draw distance setting down (low gfx settings) and relay visual target information with ease, as the buildings and so forth aren't rendered, but the "actors" are.