66 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

lol i think so....

[New Day]

Just wanna play, on 16 June 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

rumor that says they might increase mc cost of mech bays in the future

Obviously, I wondered where he heard that.

[Just wanna play]

dont know where its been said but i have heard it before to, cant remember where though.....

[Koniving]

Zerberus, on 16 June 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Side note:the 4 of need to drop together in our Roflpults some time... the Forums will be flooded with so much LRM qq it`will be absolutely hilarious.

QQer "I got cored by a single LRM5!!"
Us : "No, it was 4 LRM 90s, one from each of us."

I mean, he may have a point, 5 missiles is just as dangerous as 360, right?

*edit* ROFL, reading that back, 360 missile, that`s just so ridiculously many to even imagine, I remember now why I named it the Roflpult. I picture mechwarriors looking to the sky and then doing this:

Add me on MWO and we'll try to get together some night to do exactly that in either an 8-man or a 4-man and put it on youtube. Although we'll have to rig it so we focus two 90 volleys on each target as anything beyond that is a waste of missiles.

Also worked on JWP's orbital glass cannon. This is a bit more usable. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8045771e1b7d70b

I'd invite you to jump on the Zhizhu site for further discussion on this, but I think the recruit thread's the only one you'd be able to use without joining. Now back to bragging about the incredible firepower of the ever so deadly catapults! Nao before we get necro'd by our favorite rage-causing misquoter!

*Runs before he's found.*

NamesAreStupid, on 16 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Obviously, I wondered where he heard that.

I heard that from someone else in one of the new player help threads. It's been left unproven, the guy never provided a link, so honestly I put no faith in it. Thus, I chucked it up to rumors in the first post where I mentioned it.
----------
Btw, in an attempt to get back on track, Whiskey do you have any other questions?

If you're wondering at the moment my C1 runs 2 ER PPCs, 2 small lasers, lots of double heatsinks, no missiles, XL 315 engine, and has a nose cone. Love ze nose cone. Lurv it or it'll scratch ya!

If you're wondering we'll see knockdowns (mechs falling over) in September at the earliest. There's also been confirmation lately that we'll see weapon variants of existing weapons based on different BT lore manufacturers. Various perks include 'other color' beams, possible recycle rates, multi-shot AC/20s (that total 20 damage per trigger pull but fire multiple rounds), etc.

No clue what might happen with LRM variants.

Missile flight paths are 'off' at the moment. They used to do fancy flight patterns but they recently got rewritten and haven't been fully re-implemented yet.

Edited by Koniving, 16 June 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[Whiskey Dharma]

Thanks for the help - next question is about TAG. I haven't been able to find out much about how to use it. I know that it speeds up the target lock and helps more missiles hit. But do you have to keep the TAG firing and on the target the whole time the missiles are in the air? Can I just group the TAG with the LRMs and fire away? I've been goofing off in the TG but honestly I can't tell the performance difference so I'm not sure if I'm using it right.

[Koniving]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Thanks for the help - next question is about TAG. I haven't been able to find out much about how to use it. I know that it speeds up the target lock and helps more missiles hit. But do you have to keep the TAG firing and on the target the whole time the missiles are in the air? Can I just group the TAG with the LRMs and fire away? I've been goofing off in the TG but honestly I can't tell the performance difference so I'm not sure if I'm using it right.

Good question! There's a few ways to do it. You can, for example, assign it to group 6 (how to do that will be taught shortly) and then stick a penny in to jam the key to keep it on. Personally I assign TAG to group 2, and just "fire" at a target. It's a line of sight assist and penetrates ECM at range (pretty useless up close since you can't lock your weapons on anything close enough to jam you).

You actually have a 1 second "decay" in case if you lose your tag target, so you have 1 second to re-acquire the target with your TAG beam for it to continue giving you that bonus if you lost it.

Tag has no use without line of sight, but an ally spotting for you can keep that target. You'll see a crosshair above the target if someone is tagging it. A light tagging a target while fighting is actually requesting help, so prioritize those targets with your LRMs.

You want TAG and the LRMs in a separate firing group to keep it from wasting your missiles, as you need the tag before you fire the missiles for it to fully count with all the benefits.

How to group your weapons.

• Use your left/right arrow keys to select a group.
  
• Use your up/down arrow keys to select a weapon.
  
• Use your Right CTRL key to toggle weapon in group on (blue) or off (black).

Your weapon groups are in the bottom right.
Remember 4 things.

• Your TAG range and your default sensor range are in the 750 to 800 meter area (750 for tag, somewhere between 750 and 800 for sensors). This is the maximum range YOU can find a target on your own. Anything beyond that range, someone else has found for you and may LOSE for you.
  
• Your LRM minimum range is 180 meters. 6 hexes. Anything less and you can't do anything to it.
  
• Your LRM maximum range is 1,000 meters and this INCLUDES vertical height travelled. Anything at 750 meters will go WAY into the air, so you can never truly hit at 1,000 meters. Missiles will explode in the air once they travelled exactly 1,010 meters.
  
• You have bay doors that delay firing. If you want to fire faster, press " / " to open your doors. The indicator is in your cockpit. Green for open, yellow for closed, red for destroyed.
  
• I can't count.

Enjoy!
Oh about performance, right now performance-wise the difference is very hard to tell. You used to see a completely different flight pattern when it was working.

For examples:

• Artemis when enabled, would fire in a double-helix flight pattern and literally 'drill' into the enemy.
  
• Non-assisted LRMs fired in a very wild, frantic piranha feeding-frenzy with more than 30% of missiles missing when it came to smaller targets (and an awesome light show).
  
• TAG / NARC LRMs flew in identical ways. Less wild, more direct, but nothing like an Artemis pattern

Below are time-skipped videos leading immediately to missiles.
LRMs. When firing at the "Flame", it fires first with tag, and then after that the tag is lost but I fire again. Watch that huge difference in flight patterns!
Artemis LRMs. <--not my video, but it turns out I have no good footage of Artemis!
Tag-assisted (There is Artemis but the tag is by a scout, so Artemis doesn't work without line of sight).
Note that recently they completely rewritten the missile flight path script. It's incomplete, so the fancy stuff isn't back in yet.

Edited by Koniving, 16 June 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Sh4dow78]

But there is one serious problem with catapuylts - big HEAD... its really not hard to just 1shoot them if u are a decent sniper... all other is great.

[Just wanna play]

Koniving, on 16 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Good question! There's a few ways to do it. You can, for example, assign it to group 6 (how to do that will be taught shortly) and then stick a penny in to jam the key to keep it on. Personally I assign TAG to group 2, and just "fire" at a target. It's a line of sight assist and penetrates ECM at range (pretty useless up close since you can't lock your weapons on anything close enough to jam you).

You actually have a 1 second "decay" in case if you lose your tag target, so you have 1 second to re-acquire the target with your TAG beam for it to continue giving you that bonus if you lost it.

Tag has no use without line of sight, but an ally spotting for you can keep that target. You'll see a crosshair above the target if someone is tagging it. A light tagging a target while fighting is actually requesting help, so prioritize those targets with your LRMs.

You want TAG and the LRMs in a separate firing group to keep it from wasting your missiles, as you need the tag before you fire the missiles for it to fully count with all the benefits.

How to group your weapons.

• Use your left/right arrow keys to select a group.
  
• Use your up/down arrow keys to select a weapon.
  
• Use your Right CTRL key to toggle weapon in group on (blue) or off (black).

Your weapon groups are in the bottom right.



Remember 4 things.

• Your TAG range and your default sensor range are in the 750 to 800 meter area (750 for tag, somewhere between 750 and 800 for sensors). This is the maximum range YOU can find a target on your own. Anything beyond that range, someone else has found for you and may LOSE for you.
  
• Your LRM minimum range is 180 meters. 6 hexes. Anything less and you can't do anything to it.
  
• Your LRM maximum range is 1,000 meters and this INCLUDES vertical height travelled. Anything at 750 meters will go WAY into the air, so you can never truly hit at 1,000 meters. Missiles will explode in the air once they travelled exactly 1,010 meters.
  
• You have bay doors that delay firing. If you want to fire faster, press " / " to open your doors. The indicator is in your cockpit. Green for open, yellow for closed, red for destroyed.
  
• I can't count.

Enjoy!


Oh about performance, right now performance-wise the difference is very hard to tell. You used to see a completely different flight pattern when it was working.

For examples:

• Artemis when enabled, would fire in a double-helix flight pattern and literally 'drill' into the enemy.
  
• Non-assisted LRMs fired in a very wild, frantic piranha feeding-frenzy with more than 30% of missiles missing when it came to smaller targets (and an awesome light show).
  
• TAG / NARC LRMs flew in identical ways. Less wild, more direct, but nothing like an Artemis pattern.

i could be wrong bt i feel as though it helps lrms hit faster targets, i like tag because it means that your spotter is offering a high quality signal that your lrms can track better, also takes longer for lock to disappear and imo faster lock is really nice since it is like giving a shorter fire duration to a laser weapn, fires more often and does its damage earlier

in other words I LIKE IT!!!

[Koniving]

Koniving, on 16 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Below are time-skipped videos leading immediately to missiles.
LRMs. When firing at the "Flame", it fires first with tag, and then after that the tag is lost but I fire again. Watch that huge difference in flight patterns!
Artemis LRMs. <--not my video, but it turns out I have no good footage of Artemis!
Tag-assisted (There is Artemis but the tag is by a scout, so Artemis doesn't work without line of sight).
Note that recently they completely rewritten the missile flight path script. It's incomplete, so the fancy stuff isn't back in yet.

Meanwhile, current missiles (the flight path not the damage dealt, lol.)


(Wow. Forgot it was a direct response vid. Dug it up because of the flight path.) Btw heya Liquid!

Speaking of which my PB's been looking pretty lately. I'll be fielding it sometime soon. But tonight's dedicated to art and animation. (Damn college.)

*Poofs away to go strip some scrap RL.* I'll be back to answer questions tomorrow. Tonight if I do get any free time it'll be dedicated to some other stuff. (Come to think of it I need to put up a post looking for another voice actress for the chassis introduction series; the one I had is difficult to contact and rarely available now.)

*Gone.*

Edited by Koniving, 16 June 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Whiskey Dharma]

Koniving, on 16 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

You actually have a 1 second "decay" in case if you lose your tag target, so you have 1 second to re-acquire the target with your TAG beam for it to continue giving you that bonus if you lost it.

For the accuracy bonus, does the target only have to be tagged at the moment the missiles leave the tube? Or at the point of impact? Or the whole time the missiles are in the air? If the TAG beam slips off the target (for more than 1 second) while the missiles are in the air, is it "too late" for that volley?

[Koniving]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

For the accuracy bonus, does the target only have to be tagged at the moment the missiles leave the tube? Or at the point of impact? Or the whole time the missiles are in the air? If the TAG beam slips off the target (for more than 1 second) while the missiles are in the air, is it "too late" for that volley?

Lucky I caught that. For the full benefits (faster lock-on mainly) you need to tag before you fire the missiles. To keep the rest of the benefits (tighter grouping) you need to maintain the tag.

If you lose the tag, 1 second after you lose it the missiles will spread a bit. As mentioned though at the moment the effect is barely noticed. It will ~not~ be noticed with Artemis under the current scripts with line of sight (least I never have).

You can re-establish tag at any time. In the vids I listed above if you check out the full vids (they're short) you'll see times when they spread out due to a lost TAG and re-tighten when the TAG is restored by the spotter. But half of the benefit of tag is a faster lockon time, that only happens if you tag before you fire.

*Is out the door.*

Good luck! As mentioned before if you'd like I could add you and have you tag along; tag-teaming means I get put in a lower ELO bracket and you get stepped up a notch. I get to screw around and kick butt with flamers and MGs, and you get to fight harder enemies that will make your normal foes look like chumps (the harder your enemies, the quicker your own skills build).

(High bracket ELO with a 4-man)

(You'd be entertained with what'd happen if I got into a low-bracket.)

Edited by Koniving, 16 June 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Whiskey Dharma]

Got it. Thanks for everyone's patient help here as I stumble through my first games, wandering in circles and firing into the air.

[Liquid Leopard]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Hmm, OK. Thanks for all the feedback. It sounds like the C1 is a good place to start for a new guy.

Yes! But they're not kidding about the huge hitboxes for the Center Torso and the Head. When you start modifying things, you want maximum armor for the CT, head, and arms. If enemy missiles are falling on you, the side torsos are panels perpendicular to their path. CT, head, arms, and cockpit will take all the damage.

You might want to work toward a build like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c48308b0d4d7675

If you buy your Catapult and have money left over for Double Heat Sinks, go for it. If not, consider that Endo-Steel is a lot less expensive than DHS, and can free up 3 tons for more heat sinks and armor. Then, proceed to save up for DHS.

Someone may have mentioned it, but because the Catapult's side torso is such a small target, and has no volume to speak of, it's one of the few mechs where XL engines don't get you killed very often. XL engines are also very expensive. For the price of a 300XL, you could buy a whole Catapult and work toward getting the Elite efficiencies unlocked. The XL engine can be an upgrade for after you've got 3 Catapults.

Koniving, on 16 June 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

The words on its right pod (your left) fit rather well. Missiles Everywhere. "When my catapult descends upon you, my missiles will blot out the sun."

Then, we shall fight in the shade!

That became my battle cry during the May 21^st Missilocalypse. I was pissed about my K2 and its PPCs being nerfed, but then I realized what LRMs were doing, and decided to roll with it.

I put the stock armament back on my CPLT-C1, and watched my C-Bills and kill ratio climb. My beloved 1st Catapult is viable again!

(My beloved 2^nd Catapult…It might take a lot of tinkering and practicing to learn how to use my K2 again. )

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 16 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Koniving]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Got it. Thanks for everyone's patient help here as I stumble through my first games, wandering in circles and firing into the air.

Good luck.

Back. Rain's spoiled my mood for art (it's too humid to work with the mediums I'm required to use) and I'm done scraping stuff.

How have you fared, Whiskey?

[ZeProme]

I think the K2 would likely be the best variant for beginner sake. It's not as demandingly expensive to run and you are fitted with good gears.

C1 is also another good choice. Really depends, do you want to LRM boat/support or be a brawler/indirect support? If you want the former, the C1 fills that role. If you want the latter, the K2 fills that role nicely.

However, not everything is played accordingly with the manual. Because MWO allows you to customize your mech anyway you want, you can adjust your C1 to become a brawler mech, or a poptart-PPC sniper mech.

Lots of variation. Make sure you find what suits you and try to maximize it's potential. That's the beauty of this game.

But anyways, I hope the catapalt variant you purchased will bring magnitudes of epic battles!

P.S. Proud owner of K2 and C1 variant. Lastly, don't get the A1, it's not very friendly.

[Whiskey Dharma]

Koniving, on 16 June 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Good luck.

Back. Rain's spoiled my mood for art (it's too humid to work with the mediums I'm required to use) and I'm done scraping stuff.

How have you fared, Whiskey?

I'm learning. My damage is steadiliy increasing. I've loaded DHS/ENDO/AMS. I see that I can get locks on mechs I don't have LOS to and I'm trying to figure out when an arcing LRM shot is actually going to connect.

[Koniving]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'm learning. My damage is steadiliy increasing. I've loaded DHS/ENDO/AMS. I see that I can get locks on mechs I don't have LOS to and I'm trying to figure out when an arcing LRM shot is actually going to connect.

Sounds good.

At 500 to 750, they go way up in the air to go over things. At 300 meters, they almost straight to their targets. Hope that helps.

[Dagger6T6]

Catapults all day, everday for me.

My favs are the C4 and the C1... K2 is not my style but has its uses... I've never piloted an A1 and I don't own any because I don't like to rely on a single ammo based weapon type.

I have a couple of C1s..... in long range setup and a short range setup. The C4 I tinker around with but it is currently a short range setup.

[Shalune]

Whiskey Dharma, on 16 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'm learning. My damage is steadiliy increasing. I've loaded DHS/ENDO/AMS. I see that I can get locks on mechs I don't have LOS to and I'm trying to figure out when an arcing LRM shot is actually going to connect.

Best thing for this is experience. LRM players need to learn maps in ways other pilots do not. You will develop a sense of the 3D space and where missiles can and cannot reach.

If you are piloting a non-assault boat I would strongly recommend making use of your mobility. Sitting directly behind your lines is relatively safe, but it will also make it very easy for the enemy to use cover, since it will double as direct fire cover from your team. Getting around to fire from unusual angles at the flanks will get you to land full volleys more consistently. Just obviously be aware of your surroundings too. You need to be able to escape quickly if targeted.

[Jakob Knight]

To expand a little on what has been mentioned....

When the game began, the Catapult was the best indirect support mech available. With time, that has eroded quite a bit, with the Stalker able to field more LRM firepower and generally take more of a beating. In addition, the Stalker can mount more secondary firepower to deal with close-in threats.

What the Catapult has going for it is flexibility. It has the ability to move fast while still keeping heavy armor and a good payload of weapons. This means it can reposition on demand to new firing positions, plug a hole in your team's lines, or to take advantage of openings in the enemy lines to strike from unexpected directions. This is the only thing that puts this mech on top of the Stalker in the realm of fire support, so make sure you use it. Get at least a 300-rating engine to give the speed and heatsink capability you need, and always remember to stay mobile. You can't outgun most other assault and heavy support mechs, but you can outmaneuver them (especially with jump jets).

Lastly, learn to keep your torso bobbing and twisting when you are in direct combat and not firing your weapons. This is how you keep an enemy from having an easy time of coring your big Center Torso or Cockpit.

Good luck!