66 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

Jakob Knight, on 17 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

To expand a little on what has been mentioned....

When the game began, the Catapult was the best indirect support mech available. With time, that has eroded quite a bit, with the Stalker able to field more LRM firepower and generally take more of a beating. In addition, the Stalker can mount more secondary firepower to deal with close-in threats.

What the Catapult has going for it is flexibility. It has the ability to move fast while still keeping heavy armor and a good payload of weapons. This means it can reposition on demand to new firing positions, plug a hole in your team's lines, or to take advantage of openings in the enemy lines to strike from unexpected directions. This is the only thing that puts this mech on top of the Stalker in the realm of fire support, so make sure you use it. Get at least a 300-rating engine to give the speed and heatsink capability you need, and always remember to stay mobile. You can't outgun most other assault and heavy support mechs, but you can outmaneuver them (especially with jump jets).

Lastly, learn to keep your torso bobbing and twisting when you are in direct combat and not firing your weapons. This is how you keep an enemy from having an easy time of coring your big Center Torso or Cockpit.

Good luck!

um, well i wouldn't exactly call having superb torso twist and far more launcher tubes compared to stalkers "worthless" when designing an lrm support mech, as well as costing your team a heavy mech instead of an assault mech

Edited by Just wanna play, 17 June 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

Just wanna play, on 17 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

um, well i wouldn't exactly call having superb torso twist and far more launcher tubes compared to stalkers "worthless" when designing an lrm support mech, as well as costing your team a heavy mech instead of an assault mech

Actually, the Stalker has more missile capacity due to heavier available tonnage, and can carry more ammo because they don't need to move fast. For a pure Indirect Fire unit, this places the Stalker in superior position. Since the enemy is supposed to never get close to the support unit, torso twist and speed don't matter much unless the rest of the team has not done their job right.

Where the superior torso twist and speed become an asset is when you need a mobile support unit that can reposition and adapt to a situation quickly, and might be in a battlefield position forward with the other mobile forces. This is where the Catapult's strengths overcome that of the Stalker's, and thus where Catapult pilots should intend to excel. Configuring a Catapult to be a slow, over-missiled unit is simply setting it up to be a Stalker without the armor or weapons capability of a Stalker. Sometimes you might be forced to do that, but it jettisons most of what make the Catapult worth taking on the battlefield (mobility and flexibility).

As far as the Heavy vrs. Assault, that will be a valid point when they actually implement drop restrictions. That isn't the case currently, and even when it is, support units will likely be the ones the team will want the heaviest allocation on the drop because they are expected to have the heaviest punch.

[Just wanna play]

Jakob Knight, on 17 June 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Actually, the Stalker has more missile capacity due to heavier available tonnage, and can carry more ammo because they don't need to move fast. For a pure Indirect Fire unit, this places the Stalker in superior position. Since the enemy is supposed to never get close to the support unit, torso twist and speed don't matter much unless the rest of the team has not done their job right.

Where the superior torso twist and speed become an asset is when you need a mobile support unit that can reposition and adapt to a situation quickly, and might be in a battlefield position forward with the other mobile forces. This is where the Catapult's strengths overcome that of the Stalker's, and thus where Catapult pilots should intend to excel. Configuring a Catapult to be a slow, over-missiled unit is simply setting it up to be a Stalker without the armor or weapons capability of a Stalker. Sometimes you might be forced to do that, but it jettisons most of what make the Catapult worth taking on the battlefield (mobility and flexibility).

As far as the Heavy vrs. Assault, that will be a valid point when they actually implement drop restrictions. That isn't the case currently, and even when it is, support units will likely be the ones the team will want the heaviest allocation on the drop because they are expected to have the heaviest punch.

as i have said before, the catapult has far more launcher tubes then stalkers, im not saying it can mount the most missile launchers, im saying it can mount bigger missile launchers and still be efficient, and i have already posted a short list of the pros of being able to fire all of your missiles at once

having the biggest launcher possible is not what makes a good lrm boat, its making the best use of the ammo it can carry, and also its best for a lm boat to be up with other forces properly supporting them and not hiding in the back, so yeah stalkers=terrible lrm boat
cats=2nd best lrm boats



if you want to talk assault lrm boats awesome 8t-8v-8r>>>>>>>>>>>stalkers, the 3h variant is the only one even viable for lrm boating
the matchmaker already trys to match team tonnage and so having a heavy will make a difference

Edited by Just wanna play, 18 June 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

Just wanna play, on 18 June 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

as i have said before, the catapult has far more launcher tubes then stalkers, im not saying it can mount the most missile launchers, im saying it can mount bigger missile launchers and still be efficient, and i have already posted a short list of the pros of being able to fire all of your missiles at once

having the biggest launcher possible is not what makes a good lrm boat, its making the best use of the ammo it can carry, and also its best for a lm boat to be up with other forces properly supporting them and not hiding in the back, so yeah stalkers=terrible lrm boat
cats=2nd best lrm boats



if you want to talk assault lrm boats awesome 8t-8v-8r>>>>>>>>>>>stalkers, the 3h variant is the only one even viable for lrm boating
the matchmaker already trys to match team tonnage and so having a heavy will make a difference

I can conceed most of your points. Both number of tubes and number of launchers are important factors in determining the throw-weight a given missile mech will have, along with the ammunition carried.

That aside, what I believe is of more importance is to not build the Catapult as though it were a Stalker or Awesome, as I've seen some people do (and which is a natural tendency to pack on as much firepower as possible on a support unit). The Catapult isn't going to equal these other mechs in pure payload, so it shouldn't try unless the team doesn't have the tonnage for those other mechs (you work with what you have). Instead, it should be built for what it brings to the battlefield that those designs don't...namely, speed and ability to adapt to the changing situation. You can sacrifice some speed if you have to, as long as you keep the Catapult faster/more nimble than an Assault mech.

My point is to recommend a new Catapult pilot shouldn't go for the 'sacrifice everything for Missile payload' option I've seen around.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 18 June 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Jakob Knight, on 18 June 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

I can conceed most of your points. Both number of tubes and number of launchers are important factors in determining the throw-weight a given missile mech will have, along with the ammunition carried.

That aside, what I believe is of more importance is to not build the Catapult as though it were a Stalker or Awesome, as I've seen some people do (and which is a natural tendency to pack on as much firepower as possible on a support unit). The Catapult isn't going to equal these other mechs in pure payload, so it shouldn't try unless the team doesn't have the tonnage for those other mechs (you work with what you have). Instead, it should be built for what it brings to the battlefield that those designs don't...namely, speed and ability to adapt to the changing situation. You can sacrifice some speed if you have to, as long as you keep the Catapult faster/more nimble than an Assault mech.

My point is to recommend a new Catapult pilot shouldn't go for the 'sacrifice everything for Missile payload' option I've seen around.

not all assaults go for all missiles, admittedly most do though, i would like to say my awesome 8t is a very good lrm user with 2 lrm20s with artemis and some unknown amount of ammo i cant remember, and 4 medium laserz on the arms for defense, not to mention a respectable 60 top speed, its not a super crazy min/max build its designed to get the job done (i would be happier if it had 20 launcher tubes but oh well)

also have ran it with 2 lrm15 with Artemis and 4 medium pulses

i doubt many others set up there assault lrm boats like that, but oh well, i still do def agree with this statement though:
My point is to recommend a new Catapult pilot shouldn't go for the 'sacrifice everything for Missile payload' option I've seen around.

i recommend the c1, its the least vulnerable to people closing in and easiest to use

oh yeah and i also have tag on the awesome, nice having the hard points of a cat c1 as well as an extra energy hard point

Edited by Just wanna play, 18 June 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Selfish]

C4 is both the strongest LRM boating catapult and best option for LRMs in the heavy class. It not only mounts LRM60 (ALRM50) salvos comfortably but can do it with more mobility than Assaults. The only thing I wouldn't recommend is buying the mech with MC. While it might be "on sale" it's always cheaper to buy premium and purchase the mech with Cbills aftewards.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

the standard catapult (C1)is meant to play from mid range and around the sides, with the ability to deliver to support to virtually anywhere. you'd be surprised how effective 4 medium lasers can be by themselves, let alone in conjunction with lrm's, and don't drop the jump jets, the added mobility helps you stay away from direct confrontations.

However the c4 and K2 are better at longer ranges due to their weapon setups as well as potential.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 19 June 2013 - 08:18 PM.