69 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Windsaw, on 19 June 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I want to see unseen mechs.
I do not, repeat NOT want to see reseen mechs that have the same name but look very different from the original.
Better not use them at all.

Catalyst disagree with you. Pity them's the IP holders, huh?

[Windsaw]

Gaan Cathal, on 19 June 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Catalyst disagree with you. Pity them's the IP holders, huh?

Why would they disagree with me saying I don't want them in the game at all?

[SMDMadCow]

Windsaw, on 19 June 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I want to see unseen mechs.
I do not, repeat NOT want to see reseen mechs that have the same name but look very different from the original.
Better not use them at all.

This game continually proves to me that what we want and what we get are 2 different things.

[SMDMadCow]

Windsaw, on 19 June 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Why would they disagree with me saying I don't want them in the game at all?

CGL has a standing policy that if artwork wasnt done in house, then they wont use it in their publicatons.
I dont know if PGI got their liscence from CGL, Topps, or M$.

[Windsaw]

SMDMadCow, on 19 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

CGL has a standing policy that if artwork wasnt done in house, then they wont use it in their publicatons.
I dont know if PGI got their liscence from CGL, Topps, or M$.

That's why I'm fine with the current situation that they don't use these mech types at all in the game.
I don't like the concept of the reseen. Either stay with the original designs, and if you can't do that (for legal reasons) do not use those mechs at all.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

I'm sorry but if you dreg through ask the devs use the search function on the forums and the likes you will find they have already a few times made official statements say NO!

In the beginning a long long time ago now it was a maybe we will see then it changed to a firm no then a firmer NO! then they this has been asked before the answer is still NO!

It would be nice and a Locust could be fun to play with but no Macross design will ever be in the game and the reseen versions are horrid in my eyes.

As for certain rights for say crusher joe you have to look was it TOPPS or MS that got the rights MS only owns the digital rights to the game for licensing.

TOPPS owns all other media rights as in the whole of the universe in non gaming format.

So we say catalyst labs updates and brings back some beloved images doesn't mean we can ever see them in a game as only one of the two universes has the rights.

[BlackWidow]

Windsaw, on 19 June 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I want to see unseen mechs.
I do not, repeat NOT want to see reseen mechs that have the same name but look very different from the original.
Better not use them at all.

And that is the rub, is it not?

If they RESEEN look too much like the UNSEEN.....lawsuit. If they don't look enough like them....I AM DISSAPPOINT.

First off. you are NEVER EVER EVER going to see the original unseen mechs in a Battletech title. Ever.

Second, based on what PGI (Awesome Alex) has done so far in re-imaging the current lot of mech, do you have serious doubts they could pull it off with Unseen mechs? I.e. Are you unhappy with any of the mechs they have reimaged so far? To my recollection, the RAVEN drew the most ire initially, but most people have since come to love the new look and embraced it as their own.

Gaan Cathal, on 19 June 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Catalyst disagree with you. Pity them's the IP holders, huh?

This is incorrect.

[BlackWidow]

SMDMadCow, on 19 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

CGL has a standing policy that if artwork wasnt done in house, then they wont use it in their publicatons.
I dont know if PGI got their liscence from CGL, Topps, or M$.

PGI's Mechwarrior license is from Microsoft. And I'm confused about your statement. Are you talking about CGL's TT license? Does current Battletech TT have the "reseen"? If they do, this is news to me.

[Ter Ushaka]

SMDMadCow, on 19 June 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

This game continually proves to me that what we want and what we get are 2 different things.

[BlackWidow]

Windsaw, on 19 June 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

That's why I'm fine with the current situation that they don't use these mech types at all in the game.
I don't like the concept of the reseen. Either stay with the original designs, and if you can't do that (for legal reasons) do not use those mechs at all.

And I understand your view point. I totally do. It would be like if Ralph McQuarrie has somehow retained copyright to Darth Vaders image and the courts decided Lucas (now Disney) has to re-image him in any future (or previous) versions of Star Wars. Yeh, someone clever could do it, but most would never be comfortable with it.

But, you can't just take him out of the lore. He *is* the lore. The same goes for many of the Unseen. They are ingrained in the CANON of many, if not most, of the key figures in Battletech's history.

I *suppose* we could rewrite the lore and have Hanse Davion in an Atlas...but....but....BATTLEMASTER!

See my point?

[SMDMadCow]

BlackWidow, on 19 June 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

PGI's Mechwarrior license is from Microsoft. And I'm confused about your statement. Are you talking about CGL's TT license? Does current Battletech TT have the "reseen"? If they do, this is news to me.

Ye, CGLs TT liscence.
Yes, TT uses the reseen Project Phoenix mechs.

[BadgerWI]

Also tops does have the rights for crusher joe mechs your shadow hawks, locusts and what not for TT however I do not think that spans into electronic media.

[Geminus]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 19 June 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'm sorry but if you dreg through ask the devs use the search function on the forums and the likes you will find they have already a few times made official statements say NO!

In the beginning a long long time ago now it was a maybe we will see then it changed to a firm no then a firmer NO! then they this has been asked before the answer is still NO!

I have looked. Its not there. I it is there. Link it. That's what this is ALL about. Link it. Show me the post. Show me the quote. Show me the official statement from the Devs. Show me, don't tell me you read it. Show me. Show us. Cuase ive looked, ive searched, ive read, ive listened. Where is it?

[Geminus]

BlackWidow, on 19 June 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

And I understand your view point. I totally do. It would be like if Ralph McQuarrie has somehow retained copyright to Darth Vaders image and the courts decided Lucas (now Disney) has to re-image him in any future (or previous) versions of Star Wars. Yeh, someone clever could do it, but most would never be comfortable with it.

But, you can't just take him out of the lore. He *is* the lore. The same goes for many of the Unseen. They are ingrained in the CANON of many, if not most, of the key figures in Battletech's history.

I *suppose* we could rewrite the lore and have Hanse Davion in an Atlas...but....but....BATTLEMASTER!

See my point?

Like x1,000

But again, ladies and gentleman, my fellow mechwarriors, this isn't about debating the merit of the reseen, not about if we want them back, when well get them, reseen vs unseen, its about getting a post acknowledging it.
Its a huge part of the lore, that's not changing, let us know where it stands, just tell us something.

[BlackWidow]

SMDMadCow, on 19 June 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Ye, CGLs TT liscence.
Yes, TT uses the reseen Project Phoenix mechs.

That is AWESOME. Did. Not. Know! But, then, I haven't (sad, I know) played TT in almost 15 years

[Dagger6T6]

Geminus, on 19 June 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

I have looked. Its not there. I it is there. Link it. That's what this is ALL about. Link it. Show me the post. Show me the quote. Show me the official statement from the Devs. Show me, don't tell me you read it. Show me. Show us. Cuase ive looked, ive searched, ive read, ive listened. Where is it?

I'm not sure you'll get a certified letter and I don't ever recall seeing any type of official post... but I do know that Russ Bullock, President of PGI, stated in one of the live twitch.tv events... in pretty much no uncertain terms that the Harmony Gold unseens (Warhammer, Archer, Marauder, Rifleman etc.) won't be in MWO... he said they aren't pursuing it. He did say the Dougram/Crusher Joe unseens (Wolverine, Griffin, ShadowHawk etc) 'could' be a possibility. It was from his mouth to my ears, so that was good enough for me. If I were bored or lucky enough I could link you to that actual copy of the broadcast... but if you really want to hear it yourself you can try scanning through these

http://www.twitch.tv...oadcasts&page=1

Edited by Dagger6T6, 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Geminus, on 18 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Hello all.

Yes. I am beating that horse.

I won't get into what the ressen are, we all know. What this is about is the Devs and their unwillingness to make any comment what so ever.

I have made post asking what the official status is towards the reseen, many fellow mechwarriors have given links to off site sources saying that they had the answers. They did not. I have listened to hours of podcasts. I have asked the devs via ask the devs, some of my clan mates have asked.

They don't answer.

I have seen them answer the same questions over and over again, clans: no comment.
ECM balance: its what we want.
Death from above: its coming.
Collision: its coming.

etc etc etc. ask the dev after ask the dev the same questions are asked, and they answer them. even to say they cant talk about them.

My clan mate has asked for a command chair post that acknowledges the reseen, even if its to say "we cant talk about it due to legal reasons"
They say nothing.

Many of us say it will never happen. Many of us say let it go.

Its not about that.

WE are the players. WE are why they have a job turning out this fine game. Just answer the question. Even if its to say you cant talk about it.
Give us something. The devs ignoring this a slap in our faces. Ignoring our requests to acknowledge it is a worse slap in the face. Just acknowledge it. They once, many succession wars ago, said that they would make an official post about the status of reseen. Where is it?
Making a command post that says "reseen status", and then putting in said post, "hey, we know, we cant talk about it". or "sorry, never", or "maybe one day", will at least stop the forums from asking, give us an official place to look, give us a piece of mind, and make us think that you care what we think.

1: Buy Harmony Gold or buy the Macross Image rights from them.

2: Release them as public or just for the BT franchise

3: enjoy the Reseen and unseen in all kind of media products from now on (minis,games,series)

4: or just stop wishfull thinking and keep the idea that very little company right now want to bother with murky legal issues when they have more than enough Mechs to choose.

[BlackWidow]

FROM OLD AMA:

Hey Paul, great job so far My question:
Considering the fact that FlyingDebris is doing full redesigns of every chassis being included in MWO, would you please address the possibility of unseen/reseen designs? To most of us, it seems as if his work would preclude any legal problems from arising, though we would certainly understand if it were not something PGI wanted to risk. I think the fanbase would be incredibly appreciative of a simple nod in one direction or another.

Paul_PGI

Why must you do this to me? What did I do to you?

FlyingDebris IS doing an awesome great job at redefining the looks of the classic Mechs. When it comes to the unseen/reseen designs, there is always the question of legal matters. No, we don't need to go pointing fingers at anyone but it's the reality of the situation. Our fearless leaders Russ and Bryan would be the only ones to be able to make the call on the inclusion of those Mechs. There's nothing really technical keeping us from including them, it's a matter of making sure the variant/chassis we come up with is worth the time and money needed to invest in getting them done.
Now I came in here promising myself not to dodge any questions but from the bottom of my heart... yeah yeah.. trolls have hearts... I am not the one to answer this question for you.

Again, yes. Vague. But, "nothing really technical keeping us from including them" could mean....well, nothing. Yeah, you have already made mechs. So no technical question aside. It's a legal question or a pucker question. i.e. Does the thought of trying to revision the unseen make their backsides pucker.


OR THIS:
Q. Will the unseen Mechs make it into the game after all?

A. Look forward to a future announcement.

Now does this mean just wait to hear someting in the future or that we will actually have something "to look forward to" ? Cause if it's bad new...I don't ever look forward to it.

Oh, English...you fickle tart.

Edited by BlackWidow, 19 June 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Geminus]

Dagger6T6, on 19 June 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I'm not sure you'll get a certified letter and I don't ever recall seeing any type of official post... but I do know that Russ Bullock, President of PGI, stated in one of the live twitch.tv events... in pretty much no uncertain terms that the Harmony Gold unseens (Warhammer, Archer, Marauder, Rifleman etc.) won't be in MWO... he said they aren't pursuing it. He did say the Dougram/Crusher Joe unseens (Wolverine, Griffin, ShadowHawk etc) 'could' be a possibility. It was from his mouth to my ears, so that was good enough for me. If I were bored or lucky enough I could link you to that actual copy of the broadcast... but if you really want to hear it yourself you can try scanning through these

http://www.twitch.tv...oadcasts&page=1

you linked to a page that has literally 100s of videos, which one is, I want to watch it. if the info is there, awesome, my quest nears the finish line. if, not ever forward.

And if he can say it there, why is it forbidden to be posted here? Again, this is ALL that I am after, A dev post stating the official position, here, on the MWO community forums. The community is here. Post the info, HERE.

Edited by Geminus, 19 June 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Geminus, on 18 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Hello all.

Yes. I am beating that horse.

I won't get into what the ressen are, we all know. What this is about is the Devs and their unwillingness to make any comment what so ever.

From Ask the Devs 31:

Bryan Ekman, on 08 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Foster Bondroff - With the release of XTRO: Succession War I Catalyst introduced new designs for some of the unseen/reseen mechs, namely the Wasp, Griffin and especially Marauder. Any chance we will see those classic and epic mechs in the game based on the new art in this new XTRO?
A: I can’t comment on Unseen/Reseen. Very sorry.

It doesn't say much, but you did ask if the devs have ever answered the question and they have.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 19 June 2013 - 11:17 AM.