63 replies to this topic

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

This game is really fun for me, I still log on everyday, play an average of 15 games and I enjoy the hell out of it. The amount of QQ on the forums and the level of entitlement on the balance board is ridiculous and downright toxic.

I started playing about 2 months ago and have about 1500 games played and I don't think there is any build out there that is blatantly op/unfair/unkillable. (95% of my games are hunchie or dragon so I don't even run supposed "cheese builds") In my opinion the game is not as completely broken/unplayable/everyone is quitting tomorrow as people on this forum make it seem.

Every other thread is people complaining about nerf this or buff this, or people proposing overly complicated mechanic "fixes" that are extremely unlikely to be implemented. I think PGI has been doing a good job balancing the game, for example the recent MG/flamer/LRM changes have put all of those weapons in a very good place. As others have been stating its the complainers that cause developers to over-react by excessively crying over stuff that does not need to be fixed. Gameplay balance patches twice a month is a more than generous update schedule. Proposing unrealistic solutions to simple problems doesn't help anyone nor do exaggerated "game sucks, everyone is quitting" type of complaints.

For example: things that I think would improve the state of balance (in my opinion), is:
Increase PPC heat 30%, implement the overheat damage and slight damage buff to SRMs

But even if they didn't do that the current meta is playable and nothing is game-breaking and the sky is not falling.

Basically, what I am saying is:
A simple fix is much better than overhauling the whole system or adding whole new systems with hosts of unforeseen consequences, and please try to give helpful constructive criticism instead of throwing tantrums saying you will quit unless X happens.

I really wish people would keep this in mind, before QQing about whatever their pet complaint is.

Anyone else here feel the same?

Edited by Duck Butter, 18 June 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[DocBach]

quit [REDACTED] about PPCs they don't need a heat nerf, [REDACTED]

Edited by Helmer, 18 June 2013 - 10:41 PM.
Ad hominems

[mike29tw]

Garth Erlam, on 18 June 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Give me a Q! Q!

You're playing the game wrong.

[Gaan Cathal]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Every other thread is people complaining about nerf this or buff this, or people proposing overly complicated mechanic "fixes" that are extremely unlikely to be implemented. I think PGI has been doing a good job balancing the game, for example the recent MG/flamer/LRM changes have put all of those weapons in a very good place. As others have been stating its the complainers that cause developers to over-react by excessively crying over stuff that does not need to be fixed. Gameplay balance patches twice a month is a more than generous update schedule.

The highlighted bit is actually a fair point. Too many proposals here disregard the economics and logistics of game development and neglect a simple-to-implement option that's almost as good as a ten-month project for two dedicated staff.

On the rest though, you're completely missing the point. People say things need changing because the game's not perfect. It's not balanced. There are worthless weapons and builds that are too good for the skill needed to pilot them. Does that mean the world is ending, the sky is falling down and the earth is opening up? No. Does it mean we should shut the **** up and like what we have without wanting improvements? Also no.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

PGI DEFENSE FORCE **** YEAH

[Gaan Cathal]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

PGI DEFENSE FORCE **** YEAH

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Gaan Cathal, on 18 June 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

The highlighted bit is actually a fair point. Too many proposals here disregard the economics and logistics of game development and neglect a simple-to-implement option that's almost as good as a ten-month project for two dedicated staff.

On the rest though, you're completely missing the point. People say things need changing because the game's not perfect. It's not balanced. There are worthless weapons and builds that are too good for the skill needed to pilot them. Does that mean the world is ending, the sky is falling down and the earth is opening up? No. Does it mean we should shut the **** up and like what we have without wanting improvements? Also no.

Actually that is exactly what I was trying to say, I guess I just wasn't able to communicate it as clearly (will edit OP to reflect).

"A simple fix is much better than overhauling the whole system or adding whole new systems with hosts of unforeseen consequences"

By no means I don't think that everyone should just shut up and eat their gruel, gameplay balance is an ongoing process but I feel that PGI is doing an adequate job at it. Its not perfect as it is, but it is getting better with each patch.

My complaint is more towards the people who are saying "OMFG this is so broken/I'm gonna quit unless this is fixed, here is my overly complicated idea on how to do it". It helps more to make suggestions that are actually realistic to implement and to not exaggerate how bad stuff is just because it ****** YOU off.

Oh and also "nerf PPCs"

Edited by Duck Butter, 18 June 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Aaron45]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I started playing about 2 months ago and have about 1500 games played and I don't think there is any build out there that is blatantly op/unfair/unkillable. (95% of my games are hunchie or dragon so I don't even run supposed "cheese builds") In my opinion the game is not as completely broken/unplayable/everyone is quitting tomorrow as people on this forum make it seem.

Every other thread is people complaining about nerf this or buff this, or people proposing overly complicated mechanic "fixes" that are extremely unlikely to be implemented. I think PGI has been doing a good job balancing the game, for example the recent MG/flamer/LRM changes have put all of those weapons in a very good place. As others have been stating its the complainers that cause developers to over-react by excessively crying over stuff that does not need to be fixed. Gameplay balance patches twice a month is a more than generous update schedule.

The only things that I think would improve the state of balance (in my opinion), is:

Increase PPC heat 30%, implement the overheat damage and slight damage buff to SRMs

But even if they didn't do that the current meta is acceptable and nothing is game-breaking and the sky is not falling.

Anyone else here feel the same?

^^ This^^ I mainly agree. But srms feel really good. Dont expect from them to be op. They do 9 damage for 4 tons (srm 6 + 1 ton ammo). Heat is really ok. with artemis its like a great lbx 10

Forum becomes ridiculous. Now theres even a thread saying: Ams too powerful- or something like that.

Edited by Legolaas, 18 June 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[Koujo]

Yeah the level of nerd rage and dev bashing on these forums is over the top. It's what you get with free games that are heavily populated with spoiled little kids with an overgrown sense of self-entitlement.

While the game isn't perfect, it's a long way from the screwed up mess these whiners are portraying it to be. Suck it up. Give helpful feedback if you have an opinion. But otherwise stop polluting these boards with your petty temper tantrums.

[Aaron45]

Koujo, on 18 June 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yeah the level of nerd rage and dev bashing on these forums is over the top. It's what you get with free games that are heavily populated with spoiled little kids with an overgrown sense of self-entitlement.

While the game isn't perfect, it's a long way from the screwed up mess these whiners are portraying it to be. Suck it up. Give helpful feedback if you have an opinion. But otherwise stop polluting these boards with your petty temper tantrums.

this^^ aswell. i totally agree- many nerds here- especially on forum

[Gaan Cathal]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

By no means I don't think that everyone should just shut up and eat their gruel, gameplay balance is an ongoing process but I feel that PGI is doing an adequate job at it. Its not perfect as it is, but it is getting better with each patch.

Part of the problem here is that PGI has had a slightly spotty past with some things that has lost them some faith with most of the game-design-savvy population on the boards. Letting the LRMpocalypse weekend get past basic internal QA was one. The now-infamous "three second Jenner" is another example. Flat out refusal for quite a while to address the pathetic machine gun and LB-X mechanics another.

They are improving though. Take a look at the "oh noes, nerfed LPL, wot?" threads and you'll see that while there's quite a lot of bitter ranting about a nerf to an underused weapon, there's also a degree of acknowledgement that yes it is a nerf to an underused weapon, and yes it is a bit daft but in this case they came out beforehand and said "We know this change isn't good. We're normalising the Pulse Lasers and expect to be changing them from these numbers to balance them. We're just establishing a unified baseline.". Now yes, this is something that should've already been in place, and yes useless LPLs will be annoying for a while but they have a fair logic and they were clear and open about it. That's a huge sea change from a mathematically impossible justification for 1.4x "double" heatsinks.

Note that the problem I'm pointing out there isn't the 1.4x dubs, it's the inaccurate justification for them. A justification debunked with five minutes with Smurfy and a calculator. Thankfully they do appear to be learning, although I think they're partly hampered by a slightly reactive culture and by programming-logistical limitations (either one of which could be their reason for, say, refusing to convert heat capacity bonus into heat dissipation bonus as a method for limiting massive-heat alphas compared with sustained fire builds.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 18 June 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[jakucha]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

PGI DEFENSE FORCE **** YEAH

Aka "they don't agree with me so let's make up a childish name"

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Namais, on 18 June 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Good for you man. Someone has to take the fat chicks home.

well then you should be glad that someone is willing to show your sister some love....

sorry, couldn't resist

[King Arthur IV]

convergence fixes all boating! pin point damage at any range is really dumb for instance, ac20 jager cannons are clearly wider then you raven but at 0 range the shells exit the barrel at 90 degrees to hit your raven....................

[MustrumRidcully]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Every other thread is people complaining about nerf this or buff this, or people proposing overly complicated mechanic "fixes" that are extremely unlikely to be implemented.

Just a helpful reminder...

That boating heat penalty system the developers are suggesting... It is not something players came up with.

Halving heat capacity and doubling dissipation is a trivially easy suggestion in comparison to that system. At least going by the configuration files in the client. And it will certainly be much easier to explain to noobs, because it's the same system we have right now, just with tweaked numbers.

[SteelWarrior]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

This game is really fun for me, I still log on everyday, play an average of 15 games and I enjoy the hell out of it. The amount of QQ on the forums and the level of entitlement on the balance board is ridiculous and downright toxic.

I started playing about 2 months ago and have about 1500 games played and I don't think there is any build out there that is blatantly op/unfair/unkillable. (95% of my games are hunchie or dragon so I don't even run supposed "cheese builds") In my opinion the game is not as completely broken/unplayable/everyone is quitting tomorrow as people on this forum make it seem.

Every other thread is people complaining about nerf this or buff this, or people proposing overly complicated mechanic "fixes" that are extremely unlikely to be implemented. I think PGI has been doing a good job balancing the game, for example the recent MG/flamer/LRM changes have put all of those weapons in a very good place. As others have been stating its the complainers that cause developers to over-react by excessively crying over stuff that does not need to be fixed. Gameplay balance patches twice a month is a more than generous update schedule. Proposing unrealistic solutions to simple problems doesn't help anyone nor do exaggerated "game sucks, everyone is quitting" type of complaints.

For example: things that I think would improve the state of balance (in my opinion), is:
Increase PPC heat 30%, implement the overheat damage and slight damage buff to SRMs

But even if they didn't do that the current meta is playable and nothing is game-breaking and the sky is not falling.

Basically, what I am saying is:
A simple fix is much better than overhauling the whole system or adding whole new systems with hosts of unforeseen consequences, and please try to give helpful constructive criticism instead of throwing tantrums saying you will quit unless X happens.

I really wish people would keep this in mind, before QQing about whatever their pet complaint is.

Anyone else here feel the same?

Most feel the same. The only people who come on these forums are the ones who want to cry about everything.

"Oh noes, pop tards wreck the game".

Funny enough I get into brawling range any game I roll my cheesy Ac20 Jager without problems. Course these cry babies are probably the same tards that you watch park their commando 5 feet off of the mech they are firing at and get dropped in one volley.

Dont let it get to you. Theres been QQ since closed beta on here.

[tenderloving]

Legolaas, on 18 June 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

this^^ aswell. i totally agree- many nerds here- especially on forum

--The source of this quote is a guy who was so hell-bent on calling himself Legolas he was willing to spell it wrong.

SteelWarrior, on 19 June 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Most feel the same. The only people who come on these forums are the ones who want to cry about everything.

"Oh noes, pop tards wreck the game".

Funny enough I get into brawling range any game I roll my cheesy Ac20 Jager without problems. Course these cry babies are probably the same tards that you watch park their commando 5 feet off of the mech they are firing at and get dropped in one volley.

Dont let it get to you. Theres been QQ since closed beta on here.

Yeah, the Gold Founders with 2500+ posts are known for their terrible Commando piloting. After playing since early Closed Beta they have refined their Commando skills to be able to park the mech directly under your crosshairs 95% of the time.

Here's the deal, OP. There are people who find slot machines fun. They could feed a slot machine quarters and pull the lever for hours a day, every day, for the rest of their lives, and they would be happy with that. Most people, however, find that tedious. Most people need more engagement and stimulation than what MWO is currently putting out, and there are plenty of other games out there to provide it. Most of the QQ is from people who want the game to succeed, and are voicing their opinions in the hope that it can improve before they leave for greener pastures.

Edited by tenderloving, 19 June 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[Soy]

Duck Butter, on 18 June 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

This game is really fun for me, I still log on everyday, play an average of 15 games and I enjoy the hell out of it. The amount of QQ on the forums and the level of entitlement on the balance board is ridiculous and downright toxic.

Anyone else here feel the same?

Yes.

[armyof1]

I don't think OP has been around long enough to fully understand why people are complaining.

[Soy]

I've been around long enough and I think most of the people complaining are entitled garbage pail kids.

Out of 100s of ppl I've palled around with in this game, very few actually have fun for the sake of fun, rest are varying degrees of tryhardom. Nearly all of them however were chill and cool ppl. Good people.

But yes most are, at heart, entitled noobs. And at the end of the day theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. Even some of my best MW buds are cryboats.

Edited by Soy, 19 June 2013 - 03:58 AM.