55 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

wolf74, the Ultra ACs fired two rounds down field but in general no different from the regular AC? Hmm, I could live with that also. But wouldn't the only difference between a regular AC and an Ultra AC is the Ultra just fires more down range with the same damage? Could have swarn it was a bit different on the TT games.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The trouble is ML's make more sense than AC20's - 4ML's do 20 damage for 12 heat and weigh 4 tons as against 20 damage, 7 heat and 14 tons. Add a few heatsinks and you can have say 5ML for 25 damage + 9 heatsinks and for the same weight you generate 6 heat - on top of that you save a ton of ammo which could explode and no running out of ammo very quickly.It's why people made Laser/PPC boats in MW3 & 4, especially as most maps were open so long range was an advantage. To "balance" out AC's in the way you suggest would mean at least doubling, maybe more, the damage, given ammo limitations.

[Zyllos]

Well, your firing 5 different weapons, those 5 lasers, at least in this game, will not all hit the same location. A regular AC20 or, how wolf72 explains, Ultra AC20 will place 20 damage on a single location per shell while 5 ML will only do 5 damage on a single location spread onto the target (with a chance of some beams hitting the same location).

Edited by Zyllos, 10 November 2011 - 02:04 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Zylios,
there were indeed more differences ie;
The Ultra Autocannon technology was originally developed in 2640 by Kawabata Weapons Inc, in response to Defiance Industries's request for a specialized autocannon/5 for their Sentinel BattleMech design. The result was a weapon that resembled the standard model only in the general damage that each round can inflict, as the KWI Ultra Autocannon 5 boasted a shorter smooth-bore barrel, modified breech mechanism, rapid-feed ammo reloader and specially designed ammunition.
While these enhancements gave the weapon an effective range exceeding that of LRMs and standard AC/5s, it most notably allowed the weapon to fire at twice rate of the standard model. Unfortunately, besides generating twice as much heat and burning through ammunition supplies twice as quickly, the extremely high rate of fire causes ultra autocannons to vibrate violently, leading to higher incidence of weapon jams. Though giving the weapon and equivalent volume of fire, because of these vibrations ultra autocannon fire is not as accurate as would be a pair of standard weapons.
Like many piece of advanced Star League technology, Kawabata and their unique weapon disappeared during the maelstrom of the Succession Wars, though the Clans retained and refined the technology, eventually producing variants in all autocannon classes. Thanks to the Helm Memory Core the Successor States regained the ability to produce the original Ultra AC/5 in 3035, and using this weapon and Clan-tech salvage were able to introduce Ultra versions of the AC/2 and AC/10 in 3057, finally the AC/20 in 3060.

[Zyllos]

Ok, so the Ultras could just fire two salvos per shot but have a larger deviation and more heat. That would make Ultra ACs much easier to do in the game.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Those 5 weapons will however hit in the same area, and you can repeat. The big advantage is you can keep doing it all day long (allowing for cooldown) with no need for reloads in between sessions.

[Zyllos]

What makes those 5 ML all hit the right torso, ect? We are assuming the game will still resemble the TT and not MW4 for accuracy of weapons, right?

Edited by Zyllos, 10 November 2011 - 02:14 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Can't make any assumptions yet but the posts from other threads on things like accuracy would seem to make it more likely to be MW3/4 like than TT - which makes sense as TT accuracy would be unacceptable to most people in a video game. Strictly speaking you could ripple fire them and get most hitting in the same place (given the mech wasn't moving and was close).

[Zyllos]

If the firing mechanics do indeed follow MW4, then yes, the AC20 doesn't do anything. But that is why I believe they are going with something different. But, as you stated, it's all speculation until an official announcement.

[UncleKulikov]

I want each class of autocannon to have multiple versions, each with a different firing style.

So there would be semi-auto, burst, and full auto versions of each Autocannon.

In a given amount of time, they would all do the same amount of damage, but it would be spread out over different numbers of shots and be suited for different ranges.

Let's take the AC2 for example:
If I have a semi-auto AC2, it would deal 2 points of damage in the time frame, but only if the shot hit.

If I have a burst AC2, it would deal 2/# of shots per hit, so it trades the max damage and max range for being easier to hit with.

Finally, a full auto AC2 would deal 2/# of shots per hit, so that individual shots aren't very important but it's much easier to hit with.

Then players can pick the autocannon of their choosing, and employ the correct model for the tactics they want to employ.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Personally I don't want pin-point accuracy, point & click one shot kills.

[Owl Cutter]

Nik Van Rhijn, I support your heresy even if I don't know whether it would be more worthwhile to invest in a new franchise, considering how Grognardia can get. "Seek not to follow the master, but rather seek what the master seeks."

I read about ammo cassettes somewhere, but misremembered it as fanfic somehow. I know it was not terribly long ago, because I was picturing something like the Metal Storm scheme for simplifying a modern gun by combining the magazine, chamber and barrel into one tube, except in BT's retro-future style they'd be lit off like a Roman candle rather than more realistically controlled. I imagine these tubes being loaded somewhat like how most guns today load cartridges, to satisfy the canonical specification that most fire cased rounds, with one turn representing one tube. Missile weapons could be kinda similar, I guess. This discussion aggravates my unfulfilled desire for guided ballistic munitions to supplement the guided rockets and unguided ballistics.

Edited by Owl Cutter, 11 November 2011 - 02:44 AM.

[Glare]

There were several tank cannon during the 20th century that would fit the bill I see autocannons filling. Anyone who's played World of Tanks has already encountered them. Colloquially (at least by me) called pew pew pew guns, they fire a burst of shells that do less individual damage but a high RoF. Typically fires in bursts of 3 to 5, reload times vary by weapon. I could see that as a happy medium between single-shot and RAC type autocannons.

[trulez]

What Ultra AC should be like:

[TheRulesLawyer]

Regular AC vs ultra vs rac
I see stand AC like a semi-auto. Fires more or less on the trigger pull
Ultra is like a weapon with burst mode. fires 2-3 shots per pull.
Rac is full auto, but I don't know if mini-gun level is quite appropriate for the calibers.

[UncleKulikov]

trulez, on 11 November 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

What Ultra AC should be like:

That is actually what the missile defense system in Mechwarrior is.

Ultra ACs fire two shots at once, but can jam. So Ultras should fire twice as much per trigger as their normal counterparts, but be subject to jamming.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 11 November 2011 - 12:22 PM.