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A Max Of Six Patches Left, Can Pgi Do It?


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#141 PhantomRX

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostTheAtomiser, on 19 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

As long as I can play with more than 4 in a group within those patches, I'll be a happy man.


I don't think you will see more than 4 man groups against pugs. In world of tanks they do this to stop groups from a$$****** pugs that would put people off. In CW I can see it NP.

#142 Signal27

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostAkulakhan, on 19 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

So my question is, can PGI pull it off? How do you think this game will look come Sept. 21st?

They'll miss their launch window and we'll still be in beta - simple as that, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

#143 jakucha

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:32 AM

Probably not as fast as people want, which doesn't mean they won't.

#144 Tolkien

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:40 AM

View Postjakucha, on 21 June 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Probably not as fast as people want, which doesn't mean they won't.


I think the OP is asking for opinions on whether they will do it within their announced 21 september launch by date.

#145 Chemie

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:17 AM

Sept 21 is firm. What is in for content by then is not and rapidly declining to UI2.0 (or maybe 1.5) and nothing else.

#146 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

I'm pessimistic about launch, but I don't think PGI is a bunch of evil scammers. It's a lot simpler to attribute the slow progress to them being a small developer without the manpower to really tackle this stuff. As far as bugs, the HUD and ping issues we've been struggling with for two months both turned out to be low-level problems in CryEngine. That's pretty deep on their troubleshooting trees (they investigated their own code first, as any developer would) and resulted in lengthy wait times for fixes.

The way I see it, PGI's eyes just ended up being bigger than their stomachs. That's all. They fully believed their intentions at first and never said or did anything that fell outside their prerogative to broaden their appeal enough to survive. They just got saddled with a buggy engine and lacked the manpower to provide quick turnarounds for problems. Way easier conclusion to back up than "they're scamming us!!!"

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 21 June 2013 - 11:34 AM.


#147 Accursed Richards

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

The worrying thing for me is that balance doesn't seem to be particularly improving. It's certainly a different game from six or eleven months ago, but I really couldn't call it better by any stretch of the imagination. Some weapons have become too weak, some too strong and some have always been cruddy. As we move up to release, shouldn't we be seeing a levelling out of the weapons and equipment, so everything has a place, and nothing is an obvious must-have? Added to that, the new stuff that's come out has a very slapdash feel to it, like it was balanced by means of a dartboard. The ewar items are the perfect poster children for this. We had the release of TAG, NARC and BAP, all of which were very cautiously designed in terms of what they could do--and ended up so niche that almost nobody actually used them. And at the same time, we had ECM, which hard-countered the lot of them plus missiles, and had a big pile of other abilities--including being the only counter to enemy ECM! Regardless of whether ECM was overpowered to you or not, it's impossible to deny it was the best possible way to spend 1.5 tons and two criticals, especially compared to the other ewar gear. Ditto for modules, when you have the very nerfed artillery & airstrikes, or marginal sensor improvements....and then comes Seismic.

It's hard to understand the logic behind these huge swings in power, and it's even harder to understand the reluctance to just sit down and balance this stuff based on feedback. Buff the damage of machine guns for a week, see what the feedback from the beta testers is, and then leave or adjust further based on that. I've never really felt like a beta tester this last year, just a sponsor.

View PostEsplodin, on 21 June 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Epic. Communication. Failure.

At every single turn (other then Karl) we have been given fluff, non-answers, snark, and outright fabrications. This forum is littered with awesome suggestions that are routinely ignored - some with math, common sense, and video to back them up. Things happen, and this is one complex game to code up. When the bugs got overwhelming and the lack of progress or even basic acknowledgement of the issues went unaddressed righteous indignation reached a fever pitch, they nuked the forums to quell the rebellion. Of all the crap moves, that has to be the worst. There was an opportunity to come clean and heal the rift, but that was squandered by listening to some white tower PHD and pushing the community further away.

Honestly, people will forgive mistakes and will put up a lot if they still think that the other party is at least dealing honestly. The difference between buggy launch making hate and the same buggy launch being tolerated is bottom line the faith and trust the developer earns with the community. That tank is on empty for a variety of reasons.


One of my other hobbies is miniatures wargaming, and soon the second edition of a rather cool skirmish game called Malifaux is coming out. The creators have been running an open beta, adjusting the rules each week based on player feedback from the week before. The players feel valued, so discussion is civil and largely friendly, based around presenting logical arguments to the designers for a certain change--and people have even argued to have things in their favoured faction reduced in power for the overall good of the game.

For an MMO example, have a look at these two EVE Online dev blogs:
http://community.eve...base-iterations
http://community.eve...-ship-balancing

Even if you don't agree with the changes themselves, this is how to present information. It's clear what's going to happen, and the reasoning behind why it's going to happen. The reader can see what state of play the devs envision, and how they intend to get there. And of course, the players get to playtest these changes and give feedback. And players who were losing interest in the game because this particular issue was grating on them know well in advance that it's going to be changed, letting enthusiasm brew well in advance.

When I come over here and see the SKILL crowd in full shrillness and people arguing over what the devs maybe kinda meant to imply in this vague Reddit quote, it's like night and day.

#148 Braggart

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

I dont expect much, and I also dont expect I will still be playing by that point.

#149 Akulakhan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostRebas Kradd, on 21 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm pessimistic about launch, but I don't think PGI is a bunch of evil scammers. It's a lot simpler to attribute the slow progress to them being a small developer without the manpower to really tackle this stuff. As far as bugs, the HUD and ping issues we've been struggling with for two months both turned out to be low-level problems in CryEngine. That's pretty deep on their troubleshooting trees (they investigated their own code first, as any developer would) and resulted in lengthy wait times for fixes.

The way I see it, PGI's eyes just ended up being bigger than their stomachs. That's all. They fully believed their intentions at first and never said or did anything that fell outside their prerogative to broaden their appeal enough to survive. They just got saddled with a buggy engine and lacked the manpower to provide quick turnarounds for problems. Way easier conclusion to back up than "they're scamming us!!!"



I tend to subscribe to this idea as well, they just don't seem to have the ABILITY to pull it off, rather than it being something malicious, like greed. However, I do believe they realized this, and are now doing things way off the map to broaden appeal, make more money, and attempt to do it later.

The problem with this is they are implementing things like third-person view (which, essentially, none of us want, and certainly don't need), because, more than likely, IGP wants them to. They said they didn't want it in the past, so the only way that line of thought makes sense is if a third party is giving the the commands. Other things like UI 2.0 this game definitely needs, and the amount of time it's taking...is just sort of this side of ridiculous.

And as a dev that consistently misses their deadlines and throws arbitrary dates out there for no reason except to throw a false bone to the players, saying they're launching at the end of summer is a dumb idea. It seems that the majority of forum users seem to agree with this, which is worrying. After 3PV and the inevitable glitches hit, will there even be a player base to broaden?

Edited by Akulakhan, 21 June 2013 - 01:40 PM.


#150 LordBraxton

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

I am pessimistic until they redeem themselves in 2 major ways

Buff SRMs

announce 3rd person has been canceled as an idea\feature and apologize for the confusion

removing seismic is a minor way they could redeem themselves...

Edited by LordBraxton, 21 June 2013 - 01:44 PM.


#151 Fate 6

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

Suddenly, PGI drops clans, CW, and UI2.0 on us before release, while fixing performance issues, bugs, and balance at the same time.





I can dream.

#152 Pater Mors

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostAccursed Richards, on 21 June 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

One of my other hobbies is miniatures wargaming, and soon the second edition of a rather cool skirmish game called Malifaux is coming out. The creators have been running an open beta, adjusting the rules each week based on player feedback from the week before. The players feel valued, so discussion is civil and largely friendly, based around presenting logical arguments to the designers for a certain change--and people have even argued to have things in their favoured faction reduced in power for the overall good of the game.


Completely off-topic; Malifaux mini's are fracking awesome. Don't play myself, just paint, but they are really, really good. On par with some of GW's better ones (some of the newer ones come to mind) and Reaper Mini's (who, IMO, make some of the most outstanding 28mm miniatures available anywhere).

Edited by Pater Mors, 21 June 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#153 nitra

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:49 PM

did a simple animation of day 6 kills and death through out the 14 week period

cant really tell if there is a signifigant decrease or not ...

Kills





Deaths


Edited by nitra, 21 June 2013 - 05:08 PM.


#154 Franchi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

To any of you who think they will make the dead line,

Please send me the contact info for your dealer, I need whatever you are smoking.

#155 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostFranchi, on 21 June 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

To any of you who think they will make the dead line,

Please send me the contact info for your dealer, I need whatever you are smoking.


If you're playing something else, your opinion is as moot as a non-voter. Go back to your other game and tell people how they're wrong because you can outscore them.

#156 Franchi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:14 PM

View PostRebas Kradd, on 21 June 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:


If you're playing something else, your opinion is as moot as a non-voter. Go back to your other game and tell people how they're wrong because you can outscore them.

They still count my account in their total accounts, so yes my opinion still counts.

Deal with it.

Edited by Franchi, 21 June 2013 - 07:17 PM.


#157 Stoicblitzer

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:09 PM

i don't think pgi are scam artists. i just think they are just a small team of bad developers (except karl berg) . that doesn't explain their unwillingness to MAKE BALANCE CHANGES. no communication except some vague **** on twitter. i expect zero. i've lost faith and hope. prob put about $350 into this game total and probably played about 450 hours. i think i got my money's worth. just unfortunate because this game has so much potential. maybe in 10 years another dev will try.

#158 Theodor Kling

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostAccursed Richards, on 21 June 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

It's hard to understand the logic behind these huge swings in power, and it's even harder to understand the reluctance to just sit down and balance this stuff based on feedback. Buff the damage of machine guns for a week, see what the feedback from the beta testers is, and then leave or adjust further based on that. I've never really felt like a beta tester this last year[...]

Yes :D Huge and slow swings... thanks to strict keeping of the patch schedule

#159 Arkatrex

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:59 PM

Yes, they will do it.

Please do not forget that the size of the patches matters.
There are so many things they're working on it and we do not know anything.

I'm playing since closed beta, and they had done a great job until today. The changes are big and great.

You have to wait and trust PGI only.

#160 Skadi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:00 PM

DONT WORRY, THEY CAN ALWAYS POSTPONE IT!





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