43 replies to this topic

[senaiboy]

Just as proof that LRMs are still too much weighted on CT.

Basically I tried to intercept a Jenner from capping our base (I was the fastest mech, my team was full of fatties) and got caught in the open. The Jenner fired once and retreated, while I receive 3x LRM volleys on the way to cover (he was on top of one of the tall crystals). Torso twisted away from the LRMs.

The enemy LRM boat did have Artemis and TAG, although I managed to break his LOS but not before the third volley has been fired. Still, all the LRMs damage my CT even from my side/back.

Edited by senaiboy, 22 June 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[Galen Crayn]

What can we see on this screenshot? Small Laser, Medium Laser, Some Streak SRM2, Large Laser and LRM 15`***** you... Whats the Problem? When so many weapons hit me i`m dead, yes. The LRM only was the finisher. Do not see a prove of OP LRM`s. ANd yes, walking over an open field without cover and an enemy with LRM+Artemis+Tag cann kill you. Whats the problem?

Edited by Galen Crayn, 22 June 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[senaiboy]

Well you'll have to take what I said. I only got one hit from the Jenner, and a glancing hit from a long range LL (>500m). Then 3 volleys of LRM cored me.

LRMs are NOT OP - they are more balanced now than ever was. They are just too weighted on the CT (with Artemis and maybe TAG) - I was cored before I could get to cover, even with torso twisting. It should be a fire support weapon to soften a target, not a CT-coring weapon.

Edited by senaiboy, 22 June 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Galen Crayn]

That is the sense of Artemis + Tag.... 3 volleys? 49,5 damage max. on CT... Sniper can do nearly the same amount of damage to CT.

Edited by Galen Crayn, 22 June 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[senaiboy]

Depends on how many LRMs there were in the volley. I didn't have a good look at the LRM boat, but if it was 60LRMs x 3 = roughly 150 damage with Artemis and TAG (discounting the missiles that did not hit). That damage should be distributed, not just focus on the CT like above. I twisted to expose my left torso, but it only got to light orange. My back armor was basically untouched. And this is me running at 86kph in a Jager (huge side torsos).

Snipers have to aim for the CT, and can be countered by torso twisting.

Addendum: If the missiles are targeted at certain sections of the mech, does torso-twisting even work against LRMs? Or they'll just hit the 'chosen' section no matter how you twist.

Edited by senaiboy, 22 June 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Asmosis]

^^ snipers can't be countered by torso twisting, unless you both have extremely low pings.

Consider that your ping (the time it takes your twist to reach the server) added to your opponents ping (the time it takes him to see you twist) is the length of time BEFORE HE FIRES that you have to twist, you have to twist about 0.4-0.6 seconds before the shot is even taken according to your client.

That might work for srms near max range, but ballistics/ppcs will reach you within that time frame so twisting doesn't do anything if your reacting to shots that you see taken.

@Topic

yup lrms do focus on the CT. even with that I think they are still below par compared to ppcs/ballistics, but if/when they fix the spread like what they plan on doing with ssrms, both missile types will need a damage buff or drop from existence. You often can't avoid taking CT damage from lrms even if you turn your back, as the trajectory will have them raining on top of you.

Edited by Asmosis, 22 June 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[DivineEvil]

Build an LRM boat yourself with Artemis and try to core people like that. You'll see that it does not work as you are implying. Artemis does make LRM much more focused, thus if you do took 60 LRMs "in your face", then it is justified. Jagermech is not really a mech, that can take a lot of beating standing in the open, and anybody can tell you that LRMs right now are just as much balanced as they've ever been.

[Count van Count]

Well in my experience LRM really do hit the CT more.
After one huge volley my whole Mech is yellow and the CT orange.

This happens very often so I think there could be a point in what the op is saying.

[scJazz]

In the open you died to being CT Cored in a Jagermech during an engagement that lasted approximately 16 to 21 seconds.

See once we clean up the statement and remove LRM comments entirely it doesn't even sound odd.

But let's put the LRMs back in... you died after being fired upon by your estimation 23 tons of weaponry by an enemy who had clear LOS for approximately 16 to 21 seconds at under 750m. Wow, I'm still not stunned. 120 Missiles... 132 points of possible damage being fired in the best possible conditions. You are somehow surprised by the result?

3xPPC would have inflicted 120 to 150 points of damage in that time frame.

[senaiboy]

scJazz, I just realised actually he's more than 750m away so his TAG shouldn't be working. I just saw his TAG laser pointed at me, but he's on the high crystals before Theta (north team) while I was around 300-400m behind the ring in the middle (south team).

Still, "132 points" of damage should not be all applied to my CT only, even with Artemis or TAG. The rest of my mech is largely undamaged, while my front CT (64 points of armor) is totally destroyed - which is the point of this thread, not that I got killed by LRMs or got caught out in the open. My CT got cored in 3 volleys, yet my side torsos are not even orange. Jagers have the same amount of CT armor as Catapult and only 4 less than Cataphract.

I use ALRMs regularly and LRMs will core their CT without seriously damaging the rest of their mech. That is the issue. Not LRM boats or LRMs' trajectory/damage, that is another topic altogether.

And again, I do NOT think LRMs are OP - guys you shouldn't just treat every thread on LRMs as whining about that.

Edited by senaiboy, 22 June 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[DodgerH2O]

I've noticed the same tendency of LRMs to seek CT despite torso twisting while piloting my Commando. Admittedly it might be due to such a small mech, but I had my front CT cored from behind on at least two occasions when the only things hitting me were LRMs.

No screencaps though.

[hoverstorm]

Don't QQ about LRMS. They aren't OP but in actual fact, they are pretty balanced now. Its probably the SSRMs which cored you in the first place, before the LRMs put in the final touches!

Edited by Eirikr Sim, 22 June 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[FrozenWaltDisney]

Eirikr Sim, on 22 June 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Don't QQ about LRMS. They aren't OP but in actual fact, they are pretty balanced now. Its probably the SSRMs which cored you in the first place, before the LRMs put in the final touches!

Agreed. Especially since you need 2 slots and 2 tons even to put on artemis which still doesn't go only to 1 part even with narc.

The big problem I have seen is that for whatever reason striking people in the back is effecting their front CT rather then the back CT. So if your torso twisting or moving to have your back armor face, it doesn't work.

[scJazz]

senaiboy, on 22 June 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

scJazz, I just realised actually he's more than 750m away so his TAG shouldn't be working. I just saw his TAG laser pointed at me, but he's on the high crystals before Theta (north team) while I was around 300-400m behind the ring in the middle (south team).

Still, "132 points" of damage should not be all applied to my CT only, even with Artemis or TAG. The rest of my mech is largely undamaged, while my front CT (64 points of armor) is totally destroyed - which is the point of this thread, not that I got killed by LRMs or got caught out in the open. My CT got cored in 3 volleys, yet my side torsos are not even orange. Jagers have the same amount of CT armor as Catapult and only 4 less than Cataphract.

I use ALRMs regularly and LRMs will core their CT without seriously damaging the rest of their mech. That is the issue. Not LRM boats or LRMs' trajectory/damage, that is another topic altogether.

And again, I do NOT think LRMs are OP - guys you shouldn't just treat every thread on LRMs as whining about that.

OK then you said the magic words... range greater than 750m with height advantage. At this range LRMs climb very high generating an extremely high Angle of Attack. He was above you making things worse. They basically landed on the top of your mech in an optimal situation. Without an AMS or if you weren't generating left/right movement you were dead dead dead

BTW I've played in dozens of matches with and against you so I'm familiar with your play style.

Seriously, nothing really wrong with LRMs... you got caught in a perfect storm, not dissimilar to what happens to me when I shutdown my Catapult A1 right below an Ilya.

[Wildstreak]

Sorry to the OP but I can understand how it happened better than this, not an LRM in sight.

Spoiler

[zztophat]

Against LRMs torso twisting in a yager doesn't help as much as it does on some other mechs, due to your antenna being CT (shots from above can land there).


I run an LRM boat and I can assure you that they are not CT seeking unless you have LOS on the front of the mech with Artemis equipped. When that is the case a direct fire loadout will core you even faster anyway.

[Inkarnus]

yes lrm destroy yagers
everything now focus yagers
cuz they op
nerf Teamwork
nerf AMS too it shoots down missiles

Edited by Inkarnus, 22 June 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[senaiboy]

scJazz, on 22 June 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

OK then you said the magic words... range greater than 750m with height advantage. At this range LRMs climb very high generating an extremely high Angle of Attack. He was above you making things worse. They basically landed on the top of your mech in an optimal situation. Without an AMS or if you weren't generating left/right movement you were dead dead dead

BTW I've played in dozens of matches with and against you so I'm familiar with your play style.

Seriously, nothing really wrong with LRMs... you got caught in a perfect storm, not dissimilar to what happens to me when I shutdown my Catapult A1 right below an Ilya.

Unfortunately there were no cover on the south side from that position up high. Maybe that's what it is, the high trajectory of LRMs, which isn't an issue. That doesn't solve the issue of CT being focused on too much though, virtually all the LRMs hit my CT. There should be some spread at the very least.

If you've seen me play scJazz, you'll know I have no issues with LRMs. I'm just pointing out the CT-coring tendency of the current LRMs.

[scJazz]

As someone who uses missile boats quite a bit I can tell you flat out from the shooters perspective... they are not CT coring monsters. By quite a bit I mean I spent 8 days in hell getting Cataphracts basic'd and then the 3D Elite and hated almost all of it. Whatever perceived bias you think is occurring it is all in your mind. I'd rather face off with a lurmer than GRERPPC toting crazy any day.

The CT is the largest part of your mech... where most of the damage from anything is going to land. The End.

[Ralgas]

there are a few quirks atm. (such as the atlas head hitbox) but its sound more like you need to make better use of cover and speed across the front of the lrm'er (running towards/away from one is suicide) along with torso twist. the jaggers "ears" make it one of the easier to spread chassis.