58 replies to this topic

[Raso]

Gaan Cathal, on 22 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

So...much...********...

Plenty of the well thought out ideas come from good players, and there are too many "WHAAA YOUS MUST MAKE DER TING DO LIKE DER ODER TING IN DA TING ANDS IT WULL BE FINE" threads kicking about for anyone to take the proposition that lower tier players are in a kind of universal game design nirvana.

In my experience the higher tier players who are so enlightened and glorious seldom give constructive criticism and often result to attacks on the skill level of anyone who disagrees with them. They also seem to be under the impression that their high skill and understand of the game gives them god like problem solving skills which make them irrefutable and infallible. They are right because they are highly skilled and the less skilled are not right because they are not very skilled. If you disagree with them clearly you are less skilled because that is the only way you could possibly not see the glory in their ways.

The thing is that the current meta is the result of several factors and between damage, heat, hard points, map design, unusable weapons, weapons with minimal draw backs, the lack of necessity to mount variable weapon types, pin point damage and so much more there is no one way to solve the problem of the current meta. Not only that, there are plenty of unforeseen consequences with each and every possible solution.

The problem is, however, that the high Elo players are convinced that they are gods gift to MWO and that only they have the answers while everyone else just kind of hates them and wishes that they would stop being so condescending every time they have an opinion which differ from their's.

And as I have said in another post, high Elo players are just as prone to poor objectivity as any one else. In fact I would say more so than most because they are far more likely to place the burden of fault of a game mechanic on someone's skill rather than to objectively look at the situation. They likewise tend to have a much higher tolerance towards abusive builds and tactics than others would. The are the opposite side of an extreme and just as dangerous as a noob.

[Lord Ikka]

You know, all the flamers and whiners about OP this and that should really listen to this. Koreanese happens to be one of the best pilots in the game, hands down. He's not complaining about the game- he's complaining about the state of the community. Before you post about how OP something is, or how you hate MM. Write a well thought-out post that actually helps the game, not a rage post that just complains about the same exact thing that half the forums are complaining about.

[Gaan Cathal]

Raso, on 22 June 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

In my experience the higher tier players who are so enlightened and glorious seldom give constructive criticism and often result to attacks on the skill level of anyone who disagrees with them. They also seem to be under the impression that their high skill and understand of the game gives them god like problem solving skills which make them irrefutable and infallible. They are right because they are highly skilled and the less skilled are not right because they are not very skilled. If you disagree with them clearly you are less skilled because that is the only way you could possibly not see the glory in their ways.

This is because if you see someone respond in that fashion you assume they're high Elo, and more to the point if you see someone offer a well thought out constructive opinion or suggestion you assume they aren't. That's your hangup.

[General Taskeen]

Players putting blame on players, as if we have some sort of overarching choice in the direction of the game design. We might say things, but the Devs do what they do.

[Raso]

Gaan Cathal, on 22 June 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

This is because if you see someone respond in that fashion you assume they're high Elo, and more to the point if you see someone offer a well thought out constructive opinion or suggestion you assume they aren't. That's your hangup.

Not at all. Aside from the fact that I've been around long enough to know who does and does not claim to be among the glorious, high Elo elite they all have a very specific way of talking and dealing with criticism. They a very specific tone, they repeat certain tag lines and key phrases but above all they defend their skill with wild ferocity and take great exception to the implication that they didn't earn their place 110% by their own doing.

I'm not saying that there isn't any cross over, or that there are not high Elo people who aren't condescending egotist but almost every condescending egotist on this forum has one thing in common: They all claim to be high Elo players.

[Gaan Cathal]

Raso, on 22 June 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'm not saying that there isn't any cross over, or that there are not high Elo people who aren't condescending egotist but almost every condescending egotist on this forum has one thing in common: They all claim to be high Elo players.

Again, what makes you think all the reasonable, in depth, well thought out proposals aren't by high Elo players? The fact that they don't put "I'm high Elo, listen to me" in said post? Which would, by your own apparent criteria, put them in the "condescending egotist" bracket, or at least in the bracket with them. You've got a whole self-reinforcing assumption loop going on there and it's built on sand.

[EvilCow]

I for one welcome our new elitists overlords.

[Raso]

Gaan Cathal, on 22 June 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Again, what makes you think all the reasonable, in depth, well thought out proposals aren't by high Elo players? The fact that they don't put "I'm high Elo, listen to me" in said post? Which would, by your own apparent criteria, put them in the "condescending egotist" bracket, or at least in the bracket with them. You've got a whole self-reinforcing assumption loop going on there and it's built on sand.

I never said all the well thought out and feasible ones were posted by high Elo players. I said that you see more in depth and well thought out post from people who don't go around waving their assumed high Elo around in people's faces. I said that the people who are self proclaimed high Elo players seldom offer constructive criticism (but not everyone who doesn't offer constructive criticism is high Elo, you know basic a syllogism logic problem. Understand?).

[Gaan Cathal]

Raso, on 22 June 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

I never said all the well thought out and feasible ones weren't posted by high Elo players. I said that you see more in depth and well thought out post from people who don't go around waving their assumed high Elo around in people's faces. I said that the people who are self proclaimed high Elo players seldom offer constructive criticism (but not everyone who doesn't offer constructive criticism is high Elo, you know basic a syllogism logic problem. Understand?).

Bolded what I assume is a correction (it being somewhat important to the point if it's not).

And that's all well and good. Except that is exactly what you said.

Raso, on 22 June 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Ah! The true mark of a high Elo player! Assuming you suck horribly at the game before sort of admitting that the game is unbalanced. That's how you can tell the top tiers from the lower tiers, you see. Lower tiers are just all like "This is my well thought idea on how to make things better" while top tier players are all like "You probably suck at the game. Your ideas are wrong so learn to play before you comment on things. I probably have a higher Elo than you so my idea has more merit than yours."

Had you said that most well thought out balance discussions aren't prefaced with imaginary Elo scores, I'd've agreed with you. Since that would've been factually correct and all.

[Stoicblitzer]

Raso, on 22 June 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Ah! The true mark of a high Elo player! Assuming you suck horribly at the game before sort of admitting that the game is unbalanced. That's how you can tell the top tiers from the lower tiers, you see. Lower tiers are just all like "This is my well thought idea on how to make things better" while top tier players are all like "You probably suck at the game. Your ideas are wrong so learn to play before you comment on things. I probably have a higher Elo than you so my idea has more merit than yours."

Behold, the gods walk among us!

the prejudice is strong in you.

[Accursed Richards]

Lord Ikka, on 22 June 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

You know, all the flamers and whiners about OP this and that should really listen to this. Koreanese happens to be one of the best pilots in the game, hands down. He's not complaining about the game- he's complaining about the state of the community. Before you post about how OP something is, or how you hate MM. Write a well thought-out post that actually helps the game, not a rage post that just complains about the same exact thing that half the forums are complaining about.

Remember Tolkein? His well-written arguments against ECM picked up hundreds of likes in ATD, then got pointedly ignored for three threads, apart from a snide note that they didn't answer questions based on popularity.

[MustrumRidcully]

Dagada, on 22 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

dont have long to wait, comes out tuesday unless something crazy happens.

hope it's good myself

Are you sure, this is what my kickstarter newsletter told me:
Here it is: The Official Release Date for Shadowrun Returns is July 25, 2013.

It's still June here.

[Blackadder]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 June 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Are you sure, this is what my kickstarter newsletter told me:
Here it is: The Official Release Date for Shadowrun Returns is July 25, 2013.

It's still June here.

he was going off steam, they had it listed as june 25th, but it was changed last week. no real problem though, COH2 comes out tuesday.

[Koreanese]

I have nevet said I am uber high tier or super mech pilot so yall should listen to me. My opinion has same value ad everyone else. I am simply stating what I Think the problem is. Just like everyone else. Dont assume I am a high "tier" player. Im just a average joe who likes yo play video games

[El Bandito]

Koreanese, on 23 June 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

I have nevet said I am uber high tier or super mech pilot so yall should listen to me. My opinion has same value ad everyone else. I am simply stating what I Think the problem is. Just like everyone else. Dont assume I am a high "tier" player. Im just a average joe who likes yo play video games

Now you are being overly modest. Many people here know you are pretty good pilot.

Just don't make your post appear snide, slighting, disparaging and insulting. Makes you look like an elitist jerk, even if you are not one.

Perhaps it was not a good day?

Edited by El Bandito, 23 June 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[KhanHeir]

Koreanese, on 23 June 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

I have nevet said I am uber high tier or super mech pilot so yall should listen to me. My opinion has same value ad everyone else. I am simply stating what I Think the problem is. Just like everyone else. Dont assume I am a high "tier" player. Im just a average joe who likes yo play video games

Prince O.P.

Bad pilot is he,

back cap cicada


Beat by Kong,

is he wrong?

Definitely!


Showed up some time around march!

Camps forest colonys arch!

As flexible as starch!

He's PRINCE PUBBIE!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Koreanese, on 23 June 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

I have nevet said I am uber high tier or super mech pilot so yall should listen to me. My opinion has same value ad everyone else. I am simply stating what I Think the problem is. Just like everyone else. Dont assume I am a high "tier" player. Im just a average joe who likes yo play video games

To echo my friend with the bikini clad chick in his signature. We all know who you are and how good you are.

But regardless of that, you cannot blame the community for the current state of the game.

End of story.

There are people like El Bandito, Mustrum, Homeless BIll, and numerous others who have tried their damndest to get PGI to at least open a REAL dialogue (not this fake, open a thread then ignore us crap). But they refuse and stay the course towards the game shutting down.

[Koreanese]

Man, people sure assume a lot of things. Amazing. Overly modest? You obviously dont know me. No need to argue anyways ill just admit im wrong in just about everything

Edited by Koreanese, 23 June 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[PanzerMagier]

"Plenty of the well thought out ideas come from good players, and there are too many "WHAAA YOUS MUST MAKE DER TING DO LIKE DER ODER TING IN DA TING ANDS IT WULL BE FINE"

I read that in 40K orc and laughed maniacally ...

Edited by PanzerMagier, 04 July 2013 - 05:36 AM.