37 replies to this topic

[Anonynonymous]

There are less and less reason to own Dragons these days. At the beginning they used to be considered as good snipers, but was soon replaced by gauss Catapults and later the Cataphracts. Then people say, at least Dragons are mobile! And now we have Quickdraws that offers similar armor and mobility but also with jump jets. On top of that, they're able to mount considerably more firepower. The bottom line is at the present, majority of the Dragon models lacked teeth due to anemic hardpoints. And with Dragon's speed advantage gone now, I'm affraid the Dragons are losing their niche. People driving Dragons these days are either stubborn or looking for challenge. Dragons need to get their quark, and good quarks at that, soon or they'll seriously go extinct before long.

[Wormrex]

They should be fine once they can go bowling once again >_<

The one thing the dragons have that the quick draw doesn't offer is ballistics. I think I'd never sell off my triple AC2 dakka dragon.

[Anonynonymous]

Wormrex, on 22 June 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

They should be fine once they can go bowling once again >_<

The one thing the dragons have that the quick draw doesn't offer is ballistics. I think I'd never sell off my triple AC2 dakka dragon.

If Dragons are meant to be ballistic specialists, then we simply don't have enough ballistic hardpoints to fill that role, 1-3 hardpoints are really not at all impressive. Cataphracts and Jagermechs are way better ballistic sluggers than Dragons.

[Wormrex]

Nor the tonnage to fully utilise the Dakka.

Overall Dragon is in a funny spot indeed. Not even the super mobile arm twist could save them.

But I'll still keep mine if that's okay with you

[General Taskeen]

They should just readjust the Dragon model to be skinnier with a less exaggerated CT so it can take damage better with its fewer weapon options and hard-points.

[Anonynonymous]

General Taskeen, on 22 June 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

They should just readjust the Dragon model to be skinnier with a less exaggerated CT so it can take damage better with its fewer weapon options and hard-points.

I find it unlikely they'll make any new change to the Dragon's model by this point. The most they're gonna do is add the vairable weapon muzzle graphics and that's it, and I'm not even sure if they're gonna do that at all. Right now Quickdraw, while certainly not perfect, has pretty much sucked all the last bits of competitiveness from Dragon now. Whatever quarks they're planning for Dragons, they need to happen ASAP, and they need to be good. Hell, add some more hardpoints to the 3 basic Dragon variants while at it. They could all use another energy hardpoint at left arm, for example.

[Johnny Reb]

Both the Dragon and Quick are hampered now by class and weight.

[Anonynonymous]

Johnny Reb, on 23 June 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

Both the Dragon and Quick are hampered now by class and weight.

Yeah, but at least Quickdraw has the firepower thanks to superior hardpoints.

[Skyfaller]

Everything is going the way of the dodo if it does not boat PPCs or AC20s.

[Carrioncrows]

There isn't a Quickdraw out there that the dragon doesn't laugh at.

The strength of the Dragon is it's ballistics, not full utilizing them and you are right, better off with another mech.

[operator0]

The QKD does have superior hard points than all the Dragons except the Flame. But, the Flame has been the best Dragon since it first came out. I'll go 1v1 on a QKD with my Flame any day of the week. Pay to win? Probably, but I don't care.

[Carrioncrows]

Flame is ok but honestly it's the least powerful of the dragons.

The Arm mounted Ballistics bring so much utility it is very hard to pass up.

[Nunspa]

Skyfaller, on 23 June 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Everything is going the way of the dodo if it does not boat PPCs or AC20s.

I have no idea what game your playing....

but my Illya with 3/Ultra 3/ML or my K1 with 2/AC 10 4/ML do quite well.

[Odnir]

Right now, I'm the number 2 Dragon pilot on the leaderboard. I don't say that to toot my own horn or pretend I'm great, but so that I'm not immediately dismissed as a new player who has no experience.

The dragon is definitely less user-friendly and forgiving than a lot of the other heavy designs. It doesn't jive well with the nature of the game, from patch to patch. LRMs in the nose are (mostly) useless, for example, because to use LRMs you have to point your face at the thing you're firing at the entire time. Pointing your big nose at a target the entire time you're fighting is a bad idea in most mechs but it's an outright mortal sin for the dragon pilot. You can't hide behind cover and boat them either because you can't fit anything larger than an LRM10. This makes SSRMs or SRMs your only option. SSRMs again make you face the target, and SRMs are pretty weak right now if you can't mass them. It might as well shoot wet noodles. I wish we had a different firing system for LRMs.

Then you've got a hardpoint layout that discourages boating. You're usually going to be running a pretty mixed weapons loadout. Which would be great if the game right now wasn't pretty much all about boating. I'd like to think this is the game design's fault rather than the dragon's fault, but the dragon pays the price.

Topping off this challenge, one arm is ballistic, the other is energy. Except for the AC/2 and PPC which both have the same travel speed, that means both arms will have to point at different locations relative to the target when firing. You'll have to lead by a certain amount to fire your ballistic weapon, and then by a different amount to fire the laser (or PPC), which again slightly increases the amount of time you need to directly face the target, and limits both your alpha strike potential and your DPS potential as you have to alternate moving your mouse ahead of/onto the target with each weapon fire.

Lastly, the dragon should be fast, but that speed difference is not as significant in MWO as it is in tabletop or the fiction. You can't fire directly behind you as you retreat, for example. A lack of heat penalties to movement as BattleTech is supposed to have also impairs your ability to drop a pursuer behind and make use of your engine. Plus the extended weapon ranges compared to tabletop let a pursuer fire on you for longer and make range bands less important. Once you're being chased, there's very little you can do because you haven't got the speed of an upgraded light mech. The possibility for a tactical retreat only works if you've got lots of cover, or you're next to friends. So ultimately you're not quite as mobile as you should be, and that mobility counts for less than it ought to.

All that said I love the Dragon. It's mass is lower down than a Quickdraw. And I like the fact I get all three hardpoint types. You can still do really well. I've got a lot to learn about the chassis myself and I'm by no means whatsoever an 'elite' pilot, and yet it works well for me.

I wouldn't want to see it changed at this time. I think that the things that are flaws in the Dragon are really just flaws in the game as a whole, and the Dragon makes them very apparent. If those things never get fixed, then maybe it needs some neat quirks. Strong knockdown resistance will be a good start when knockdowns come back to the game.

[General Taskeen]

Compared to the Dragon in MW4, this one in MWO is veeeery wide and easier to hit.

Combine that with the better simulation options for mechs with full actuators (being able to shoot 90 degrees sideways while only showing your enemy a side profile as they got pummeled).

Edited by General Taskeen, 23 June 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well based on the Tourney, it doesn't look like there are that many Dragons out there any more. I accidently dropped into a match with my striped Dragon (I think I had 2 medium lasers equiped is all) and scored a measley 56 points on that one and only match which I am sure places me at the very bottom of the Dragon bracket. My rank is 560. Did the same thing on my Cataphract just for the hell of it and got ranked at like 2100 or something.

Now that doesn't really tell us the real numbers because most people in the Tourney are playing their best mech but I do think we can extrapolate a bit and assume that if the bottom rank for a Dragon is 560 and the bottom rank for the Cataphract is 2100, that it is pretty obvious Dragons aren't that popular.

[James DeGriz]

Not sure why. I love mine. My 1C is my most succesful mech in terms of KDR and Wins / Losses. It's also the only chassis that I've mastered where I've kept all three variants because none of them suck (at least imo).

1C - XL300, 4ML, Gauss.

Gauss in the arm makes it a very versatile hit n run striker

5N - XL300 2ML, 3x AC2

Good speed, lots of Dakka. Great for being an armour shredding support mech. 6-700 damage rounds are not uncommon for me in this mech.

FLAME - XL350, 4ML, 1 Gauss.

2 ML in each arm. torso mounted Gauss and a top speed some mediums can only dream of, make this an absolutely superb base defense and light mech killer.

Honestly, I really don't understand why Dragons aren't more popular. Perhaps their role is a little niche for some peoples tastes, and their hardpoint configurations mean boating PPCs or LRMs isn't possible, but I think they're massively under-rated.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Been levelling quickdraws over the weekend and have not lost to a Dragon yet, I'm equal in speed but thanks to the jj far more agile, while the poor Dragon has to run around buildings I can jump over and catch them from behind.

They also have much better flexibility when it comes to missile loadouts.

Dragons need looking at because they are not in a great place at the moment.

[SMDMadCow]

I remember back before closed beta began, all the chatter aboit the Dragon being so much better than the Cent.

[Kraven Kor]

I still see the occasional Dragon wrecking stuff, usually UAC/5 + dual LL builds.

I really want one, at least, but I'm Marik, and Dragons are dirty drac mechs