Ppc Hotfix Please?
#1
Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:46 PM
I mean make them run hot
like they used to
People complained PPCs were underpowered
in reality, they just had terribad hit detection
so they gained, 2000mps speed, EMP, and got lowered to 8 heat, all at once
then HSR fixed hit detection
so...
can we just....
have 10 heat PPCs back already? (15 heat ERs)
really this is taking far too long
#2
Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:47 PM
#3
Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:52 PM
#4
Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:53 PM
CancR, on 23 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:
Not really. They don't run hot enough for most to even consider the heat enough of a downside to look for an alternative weaponry. Currently, they don't even generate more heat than a LPL does. Thus their main balancing factor (high heat), which also limits their (repeated) alpha capabilities is not present in the game.
#5
Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:02 PM
DemonRaziel, on 23 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:
#6
Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:10 PM
DemonRaziel, on 23 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:
this
only 1 more heat than a large laser?
the huge benefit to PPCs is that they are so high velocity, and deliver 100% frontloaded damage
for 7 tons, it is a ridiculous bargain
all of my competetive builds carry PPCs and I am soooo sick of using them
#7
Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:16 PM
As stated above by Braxton, the PPC has 1 more heat than the LL, while providing more damage, pinpoint damage and a faster recycle time (granted, this results in a higher HPS as well) and a even a lower heat than the LPL (which does have higher damage now, but loses a lot in the range department).
Death from overheats will only kick in once you overheat. How many 3-4 PPC alphas can you get off before you get to that point, with a sensible (read: optimized) amount of heat sinks at the current heat threshold levels?
#8
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:04 PM
If you want a game to hold your hand, play TF2. This is Mechwarrior. No guts, No galaxy.
#9
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:06 PM
CancR, on 23 June 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:
If you want a game to hold your hand, play TF2. This is Mechwarrior. No guts, No galaxy.
um, what?
I am not asking for any added game mechanics to make the game easier
if anything, making PPCs more balanced would make the game more challenging, as they are currently the easiest weapon to hit with
this is a balance discussion about a specific weapon, I am not asking for new features
Edited by LordBraxton, 23 June 2013 - 03:07 PM.
#10
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:14 PM
CancR, on 23 June 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:
If you want a game to hold your hand, play TF2. This is Mechwarrior. No guts, No galaxy.
Bad comparison. Most of the weapons in TF2 come with both strengths and weaknesses (except for a few melee weapons that are upgrades)--meaning that the enemy can exploit your weaknesses to take you down. The PPC currently just has strengths. It's not undefeatable by any means, but the weapon is just good at everything. It's great at long range (which is fine) as well as short range (which isn't quite so fine). It's easier to use than most weapons because you have no decisive weaknesses that the wielder has to account for. Jack of all trades and a master of everything.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that giving players an extremely easy to use weapon with no weaknesses (PPC) is "hand holding" much tighter than a game that makes you vulnerable in certain situations?
EDIT: Note that adding a downside to PPCs doesn't necessarily have to come from a direct PPC nerf; short range weapons just need to outgun a PPC user in short range (i.e. SRM/Pulse buff).
Edited by FupDup, 23 June 2013 - 03:19 PM.
#11
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:16 PM
LordBraxton, on 23 June 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:
I mean make them run hot
like they used to
People complained PPCs were underpowered
in reality, they just had terribad hit detection
so they gained, 2000mps speed, EMP, and got lowered to 8 heat, all at once
then HSR fixed hit detection
so...
can we just....
have 10 heat PPCs back already? (15 heat ERs)
really this is taking far too long
brax, usually you're my boy but this time i gotta disagree. BUFF SRMs BEFORE NERF PPCs imo.
#12
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:21 PM
CancR, on 23 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:
What the hell are you smoking? A standard PPC produces the same amount of heat as a LL which is 8 points of heat. ERPPC is 11. Change them back to TT levels of 10 for Standard and 15 for ER, add in REAL heat penalties and you suddenly have dealt with most of the PPC epidemic.
Edited by Coralld, 23 June 2013 - 03:23 PM.
#13
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:23 PM
Coralld, on 23 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:
What the hell are you smoking? A standard PPC produces the same amount of heat as a LL which is 8 points of heat. ERPPC is 11. Change them back to TT levels of 10 for Standard and 15 for ER, add in REAL heat penalties and you suddenly have dealt with the PPC epidemic.
Actually, MWO Large Lasers only generate 7 heat (and do 9 damage) so they got buffed from TT values. But yes, heat currently isn't a very punitive downside because you only get issues when you shut down or try to alpha while near your capacity (death).
#14
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:24 PM
~sincerely
PGI
#15
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:27 PM
FupDup, on 23 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:
Yes, my mistake, LL in MWO do produce 7 points of heat instead of 8. Still doesn't change the fact that they are far more heat effective for their over all pros and cons... What am I saying? There is no cons to using PPCs.
PanzerMagier, on 23 June 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:
~sincerely
PGI
Kind of like ECM when it first came out and seismic, right?
Edited by Coralld, 23 June 2013 - 03:33 PM.
#16
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:40 PM
At the rate PGI is working though, I won't be keeping my hopes high for a balance pass anytime soon.
#17
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:52 PM
CancR, on 23 June 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:
If you want a game to hold your hand, play TF2. This is Mechwarrior. No guts, No galaxy.
Dude, your responses are getting more and more out of place. Your logic on this subject is flawed in 2 ways.
Why did they nerf the missiles after the LRMageddon? Why did they punish the people that liked the usage of LRMs? Because the weapons were outperforming everything else and were creating an imbalance in the game and were clearly not performing as intended, perhaps?
Next, PPCs are not too hard to use. Increasing the heat will make the weapon fire just the same, it will make it harder to manage its heat. If you want the game to hold your hand, play TF2 (whatever that is, but I am guessing it's Team Fortress 2 - never played that game, can't comment on how difficult it is; or isn't).
Your proposed severe penalties for overheating are indeed good, except in order for them to apply, you first need to have a reasonable heat on the weapons, so they indeed cause you to overheat if you (ab)use them too much too often.
The current heat levels for PPCs are too low and are thus not limiting enough to make it a matter of choice for the players whether to boat as many PPCs as they can or rely on another weapons (or, demon forbid, opt for a balanced multi-purpose loadout), because PPCs are clearly outperforming other weapons in most situations that typically occur in this game.
Buffing other weapons, most prominently SRMs, is needed as well. But no matter how much you help promote brawling, that alone will not change the fact, that PPCs will still retain their repeated high alpha capabilities that end most fights in a matter of seconds.
#18
Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:56 PM
In a normal drop I see a pretty even spread of stuff being used. There is per side, usually 3 or more rides each running autocannons/Utlras, Guass, SRMs, SSRMs and LRMs. Almost half will have lasers and the about half will have a PPC or three. Since the mechs tend to be energy weapon heavy (with the exception of Jagers). this isn't bad at all.
Edited by Steel Claws, 23 June 2013 - 04:00 PM.
#19
Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:02 PM
They weren't changed in CB due to crappy hit detection. Remember that the GR is in the same boat as far as hit detection is concerned and everyone was using them, I mean everyone. And everyone was hitting with them just fine. Funny that.
There were calls to buff the PPC to make it more comparable with the GR so that you'd want to use the PPC instead of just running the GR.
So PGI did and it worked - you can now choose between the GR or PPC and you would do fine with either or both.
What the problem is, as others have already said, is the hardpoint system that allows for boating and pinpoint accuracy whilst on the move. You should be accurate when you're stationary and have taken careful aim.
How did PGI combat the GR problem in CB? They buffed a weapon to make it comparable.
To nerf a weapon just has a flow through effect to smaller mechs - just look at what nerfing SRM boats did to mediums and lights that could only carry 1 or 2 launchers.
#20
Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:05 PM
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