111 replies to this topic

[Skadi]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 30 June 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

When an official makes a call that had been used in the prior two matches also, its called being a poor sport to whine and name call till you get a rematch. The fact is Weebi didn't even try after he was forced to rematch after being declared a winner. Its not like the damage in the first match with him was a gap its was 86 to 54 meaning they traded blows.

So yes when you declare someone a winner and then decide because someone is ********* to revoke that its favoritism and caving. Weebi won fair and square from the rulings then the ********* began. And then I find out later that Weebi was not allowed to use certain mechs and was pushed into a jenner so his choices were limited and he used light tactics vs a heavy he out played Jager on every front the first match.

[Little Nemo]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 30 June 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Jager is a cry baby but but how can I lose to a Jenner wah wah wah.

By that you mean destroyed him in a match where they actually had to fight?

[GrimlockONE]

Glory, on 30 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Anyone who watched the stream knows that the tag builds were a gimmick, and showed no semblance of skill. The initial rules were set up to prevent them, and removing that rule only exacerbated the problem. Permitting the tag builds was neither balanced nor entertaining, and it was subsequently altered again. I welcome anyone to face JagerXII straight up ... if you come out alive, color me surprised.

This is the first time a tourney like this has been done, and what we have all learned is that there's a need for certain rules. I have no doubt the ship will be tighter next time.

This was a fun tourney to watch, and I want to thank BA for putting it on. Looking forward to next time!

I know Jager to be a good pilot but I would gladly face him. =P I believe I still am undefeated in Zellbrigen from the DS days

[MorbiusSire]

Skinny Pete, on 30 June 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

By that you mean destroyed him in a match where they actually had to fight?

By that he means that weebi was made to cater to jager and play jagers match and not his own, he was no longer able to use his mech as effectively as he was previously and was made to go toe to toe with a mech that not only had him outweighed greatly but also out gunned, once you took away the lights only advantage the fact that it can engage when it wants to using its speed, then you effectively killed it before the match even began.

[Waxjock]

Glory, on 30 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Anyone who watched the stream knows that the tag builds were a gimmick, and showed no semblance of skill. The initial rules were set up to prevent them, and removing that rule only exacerbated the problem. Permitting the tag builds was neither balanced nor entertaining, and it was subsequently altered again. I welcome anyone to face JagerXII straight up ... if you come out alive, color me surprised.

This is the first time a tourney like this has been done, and what we have all learned is that there's a need for certain rules. I have no doubt the ship will be tighter next time.

This was a fun tourney to watch, and I want to thank BA for putting it on. Looking forward to next time!

Thanks, we kind of pulled this thing out of our ***** and there are obvious adjustments that need to be made for next time, but in the end, I'm glad we went for it.

Congratulations to JagerXII for 1st, our own Bloody Moon for 2nd, and Weebi for 3rd place in the AoA Tournament! The Blazing Aces would like to thank each and every pilot, streamer, spectator, spot filler, and all those who were watching on the live streams for participating and making this tournament/experiment happen!

[Little Nemo]

MorbiusSire, on 30 June 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

By that he means that weebi was made to cater to jager and play jagers match and not his own, he was no longer able to use his mech as effectively as he was previously and was made to go toe to toe with a mech that not only had him outweighed greatly but also out gunned, once you took away the lights only advantage the fact that it can engage when it wants to using its speed, then you effectively killed it before the match even began.

First, kissing a mech and running away doesn't constitute a win. A gimmicky build like an ERPPC on a Jenner performed exactly like it should. The rule clearly stated that damage would only be a deciding factory if a component was destroyed.

Second, how can you be an Ace of Assassins with no kills?

[Skadi]

MorbiusSire, on 30 June 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

By that he means that weebi was made to cater to jager and play jagers match and not his own, he was no longer able to use his mech as effectively as he was previously and was made to go toe to toe with a mech that not only had him outweighed greatly but also out gunned, once you took away the lights only advantage the fact that it can engage when it wants to using its speed, then you effectively killed it before the match even began.

So what your saying is, that someone should be deemed the ace of assassins, king of 1v1, without even killing a singular mech in 1v1 combat?

[MorbiusSire]

Skadi, on 30 June 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

So what your saying is, that someone should be deemed the ace of assassins, king of 1v1, without even killing a singular mech in 1v1 combat?

Well for one he did kill a mech, he killed the other jenner in his first fight, and second it said nowhere in the rules that anyone had to kill there opponent in the match, it would be different if the ruling stated you HAD to kill your opponent but it did not. Also an assassin does not always have to kill its target, sometimes they just have to send a message

[Sir Trent Howell]

I don't normally step in on these things but I'll say this. While Weebie's tactics may have been within the rules, they were not in the spirit of competition. You can sit there and try to haggle the definition of "Assassin" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, players were expected to kill their opponents. Running around with a TAG laser is not in the spirit of competition.

[JagerXII]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 30 June 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Jager is a cry baby but but how can I lose to a Jenner wah wah wah.

No crying ever occurred. Look at the rules:

- In the event of a tie-game, the party that did more damage will be declared the winner, unless the losing party has all components intact. This is to avoid "tag" builds that do damage and run off to hide!

Very clear.

If the rules don't cater to your play style, either change your play style, or don't compete.

Weebi was a good opponent and you should stop with the nonsense.

[MorbiusSire]

Sir Trent Howell, on 30 June 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I don't normally step in on these things but I'll say this. While Weebie's tactics may have been within the rules, they were not in the spirit of competition. You can sit there and try to haggle the definition of "Assassin" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, players were expected to kill their opponents. Running around with a TAG laser is not in the spirit of competition.

Expected to? it was nowhere in the rules. if they were ment to kill there opponent it should have been in the rules, not implied by the name of the tourny. If this Tournament had of been a fight to the death from the beginning and stated in the rules then this whole thing wouldn't have happened. But I guess this was a learning experience and next time the rules will state the intentions of the tournament.

[XIIISlaughters]

Sir Trent Howell, on 30 June 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I don't normally step in on these things but I'll say this. While Weebie's tactics may have been within the rules, they were not in the spirit of competition. You can sit there and try to haggle the definition of "Assassin" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, players were expected to kill their opponents. Running around with a TAG laser is not in the spirit of competition.

First post. Hi.

Expected? How? The rules said the most damaged opponent suffered a loss in the event of a tie. It was ruled three times technically, twice against Weebi, and once against another participant.

Everything else is really irrelevant. Lore, expectations, etc weren't set in rules therefore mean nothing. He won fairly until people complained and they catered to those who whined about it. This shouldn't have happened. It should have been suffered out with the rule set, and rethought for the next tournament.

[GrimlockONE]

Listen, no amount of complaining will change the outcome. If it makes you feel better fine, continue doing so. This a unit run, community organized tournament that no one outside of a few hundred will probably actually care about.

Nothing to down on Jager winning but I feel that this issue does not warrant the amount of bitching that has come forth. We at Antares are looking to host something similar to this and I am sure BA is doing the same. It was the first run...quit the complaining and thank them for taking the time to actually do it.

[Weebi]

First I want to congratulate Jager and Bloody on their wins. It was well played and I did the best I could with what I had and with what I was told I had to do in the current state of the game. Its hard as a light now with seismic sensor and so many ways to easily kill them as lights are a close range mech that can only close on a bigger enemy when its distracted because of so many counters to us. As shown by how I had to play the range game with mediums against Vercinix in match 2. Also, when I fought bloody I was falling asleep on the keyboard but thats my own gaming endurance problem .

Second I just want to make some thing very clear about what happened though. The rule stated it was to prevent tag builds and running away; however, at no point in any of my matches did I ever run away from the enemy. I was engaging from the moment I saw them to the very last second. I dont particularity like people bringing that up as if I smacked him with a ppc then shut down in the corner. Thats not how I play, its not what I did, and I feel insulted by people saying thats what occurred.

Basically what happened is everyone wanted to see a match where heavy weights were knocking each other out and in strolls the guy that knows Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I was booed for fighting a technical battle when everyone wanted a brawl. So to appease the large amount of apparent crying. Which I was not aware of it until after the judges made the ruling because I was not watching the stream.I was then told later by people who heard that there was a lot of whining from a couple of my previous competitors when I was not in chat channel. The championship match was replayed even though the decision was made without consulting me or even talking to me about it until after it was decided, I rolled with it and just kept playing.

But in the end even with the decision it just a game and I had fun. Thanks for hosting this BA and hopefully the kinks will be removed in the future. It was the first trial run and next time maybe we can have separate weight brackets so I can really shine and not be blasted just for being a light pilot doing what I had to do to win . Also may I suggest removing some of the loser bracket that event took way to long to finish.

Edited by Weebi, 30 June 2013 - 09:54 PM.

[DeeBeeP]

You were never outside of the rules considering that they removed the "destroy component" requirement before the tournament. Your fights up to Verci were valid. Verci made the mistake of taking an all short-range build and you played to your strength and simply stayed out of 300 meters. You actually got the kill with seconds left and it was well deserved.

It wasn't until I faced you that you pulled out the ER PPC and just stayed at 1000 meters. It was incredibly boring while I sat in TS and listened to the entire channel complain about the match until the timer ran down for 15 minutes and then you just ran for the last 2 minutes. Not only were other combatants and spectators in TS complaining but people on the streams were complaining. You evaded combat, all of the matches were recorded from different views and it was obvious. If I had known that it was simply going to be a numbers game with no brawl then I would have simply taken 3 ER Large and no one would be having this argument. If you find that insulting then understand that the rest of us felt equally insulted by the way you treated the tournament.

It was an open weight tournament and everyone knew that going in. The weight limit was 80 tons but several of us took Centurions despite the fact we would knowingly be up against Assaults and Heavies yet we didn't use that as an excuse to kite opponents and evade combat. The spirit of competition was to have a Solaris style arena tournament but the participants and the viewers weren't given one.

You were made to rematch with the "component destruction" rule reinstated because the idea of a light mech winning an arena tournament by only doing 100 damage and no kills would have ruined the entire concept that the tournament was based on. It was their first tournament and they certainly learned a lot so I'm sure these issues won't appear in their next one.

[Bloody Moon]

Weebi, on 30 June 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Also, when I fought bloody I was falling asleep on the keyboard but thats my own gaming endurance problem .

Indeed it is, the match was played around 6AM in my timezone...

[warner2]

I didn't watch the live stream but did watch several fights later on including four involving Weebi.

I'm interested because in the past I've played in Solaris matches at MWL and am looking to get involved again here.

I'd say first that I think the issues with the rule set have been spotted and next time hopefully you guys will play on smaller maps only, and you might also consider matching up weight classes so lights fight lights, mediums fight mediums and so on. This should keep it the spectacle that you intend it to be.

I feel Weebi is taking a bit of flak unfairly. He WAS engaged throughout the 4 fights that I saw, and was really just taking advantage of the strengths of his chosen chassis and weapons. In-particular the fight against the SSRM Centurion was a great illustration of how to use ML to beat SSRM in a rather narrow range window. It was also a good fight from the Centurion pilot who had the Jenner cored out and came a whisker away from winning. I think in a one on one duel you need to suck it up and accept that everything goes; its OK for the Jenner to want to fight at 400m if his opponent has SSRM and it's OK for the Centurion to refuse to and use a building to force the Jenner in. It's about who can out-wit the other and you can't complain that the other guy isn't fighting your fight.

Just to reiterate I get the intention of the tournament is for a Solaris style duke 'em up and with a few rule changes you'll get that.

[warner2]

Sir Trent Howell, on 30 June 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I don't normally step in on these things but I'll say this. While Weebie's tactics may have been within the rules, they were not in the spirit of competition. You can sit there and try to haggle the definition of "Assassin" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, players were expected to kill their opponents. Running around with a TAG laser is not in the spirit of competition.

He didn't literally use a TAG laser (at least, not in the four fights of his that I watched).

[Oderint dum Metuant]

So, you put light pilots against heavies, and expected them to play like heavies instead of hit and run which is entirely what they are suited for.

Not sure why anyone thought this would be a fair or good idea.

Watching the replays was fun, some good games and well piloted matches.

I think Weebi was beaten by the rules not the player however and that's not taking anything away from Jagers ability. But when you handicap one side of the fight by taking away it's greatest strength that's not going to produce a competitive matchup.

If several occurrences of engagement are actively done and damage traded, that's not tagging once and running away, which the Jenner would have been capable of.

[Victor Morson]

Results thread is finally up! Sorry for the delay, something occurred IRL here or this would have been up about 24 hours ago!

mwomercs.com/forums/topic/124952-ace-of-assassins-1v1-tournament-results-video/