175 replies to this topic

[AntiCitizenJuan]

ATD #40
aniviron: You've stated in the past that you don't want to give players using third person view a competitive advantage by being able to see around corners, behind them, or in their far periphery. Do you have any concrete plans for how to do this? It seems like this will be an unavoidable side effect of having the camera located behind the mech, and it is the main reason that almost the entire forum is against having it in the game. You could assuage a lot of upset on the forums if you detailed how you are going to do this.
A: Once players get their hands on 3PV, I think most people will be pleasantly surprised how little the camera impacts gameplay. Early tests are showing that there is not much of an advantage. That being said, until we get this viewmode in the hands of 1000s of players, we're not going to see how it fully gets used.

"Not much of an advantage" still means there is an advantage, no matter how miniscule.

LOL3PV

[Sybreed]

yeah... that's basically how I read it too

[Damocles69]

WARNING!

Forum explosion in 3... 2... 1...

[Unbound Inferno]

ANY advantage is too much of an advantage in this dynamic.

IF this is intended to be a First-Person Simulator for Mechs there should be NO 3rd Person view at all.

Obviously a logical idea like that is escaping the devs at the moment.

[Hammerfinn]

Honestly, I like the idea of being able to see my sparkly camo on my meach and appreciating the way it moves and looks in the environment.

I see no advantage unless it truly gives sightlines unavailable to the 1PV player.

Note that they are talking about 1PV only modes, and that scheduled games will be 1PV only.

I say we wait and see what it actually looks like before we start declaring it to be game-breaking or advantageous at any level.

[Sephlock]

Is it really an advantage if everyone has it? (I'm not referring to mixed playlists, but theoretical split playlists, with strict segregation between first person and third person players).

[Xmith]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 14 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

ATD #40
aniviron: You've stated in the past that you don't want to give players using third person view a competitive advantage by being able to see around corners, behind them, or in their far periphery. Do you have any concrete plans for how to do this? It seems like this will be an unavoidable side effect of having the camera located behind the mech, and it is the main reason that almost the entire forum is against having it in the game. You could assuage a lot of upset on the forums if you detailed how you are going to do this.
A: Once players get their hands on 3PV, I think most people will be pleasantly surprised how little the camera impacts gameplay. Early tests are showing that there is not much of an advantage. That being said, until we get this viewmode in the hands of 1000s of players, we're not going to see how it fully gets used.

"Not much of an advantage" still means there is an advantage, no matter how miniscule.

LOL3PV

You can't really see behind in 3PV. You need a rear view cam for that. The real advantage would have been for the snipers if they had not introduced the shake. If you see someone around a corner, they can see you too.

[PEEFsmash]

I would trust something that PGI had to say about balance if they had any top competitive players on their balance team but they don't. Brian Buckton is probably the best player they have, and would probably get by as a competitive player, but he isn't even a weapon balancer as far as I know. PGI needs to get the feedback of the competitive community before they start saying what is and what isn't "advantageous." Otherwise, they should say "not much of an advantage at our low-level of play."

[Volthorne]

PEEFsmash, on 14 June 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

I would trust something that PGI had to say about balance if they had any top competitive players on their balance team but they don't. Brian Buckton is probably the best player they have, and would probably get by as a competitive player, but he isn't even a weapon balancer as far as I know. PGI needs to get the feedback of the competitive community before they start saying what is and what isn't "advantageous." Otherwise, they should say "not much of an advantage at our low-level of play."

Please, shut your mouth before any more of my braincells die from the "competitive" garbage you keep spewing. Why does EVERYTHING keep linking back into "competitive"? Give it a ******* break.

That being said: **** 3PV.

Edited by Volthorne, 14 June 2013 - 11:10 PM.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

Volthorne, on 14 June 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Please, shut your mouth before any more of my braincells die from the "competitive" garbage you keep spewing. Why does EVERYTHING keep linking back into "competitive"? Give it a ******* break.

That being said: **** 3PV.

because competitive play is that what makes games live long and happy life free of p2w thats why

Edited by BigMekkUrDakka, 15 June 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[Xmith]

3rd person Is an advantage against 1st person by a wide margin. You can't see behind you without a rear cam but you can see what's to the side of you. Your reation time to side threats will just abit better. There should be seperate queues if 3rd person is similar to the previous MW titles.

[PEEFsmash]

Volthorne, on 14 June 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Why does EVERYTHING keep linking back into "competitive"?

Thanks for the opportunity to explain. It all comes back to competitive because the game should be balanced at a high-level. As in, something might seem to be a problem at low-levels of play, but with improvement to your own play, you will be able to handle what you previously thought was imbalanced. Here's the example I always use. Light circle strafing is considered "overpowered" by bad players. It is okay vs mid level players, and it is absolutely awful vs top players, because top players can counter-strafe, aim, and use other anti-light tactics. In situations like this, lights should not be nerfed just because bad players have not learned or cannot execute the techniques necessary to deal with circle strafing. The game should be balanced based on the top competitive level, as in...if something is not overpowered at the level of play of the best players, it is not nerfed. If this philosophy was accepted, then a culture of self-improvement would follow. Instead of "wahhhh I want to nerf lights because they move too fast!" people would ask, "Okay, so top players can deal with light circle strafing. How do you do it? What techniques do you use?"

This attitude change would let PGI make a great competitive game instead of catering balance to the whining of low and mid-level gamers who don't want to improve their own play, but want balance to be based on their own poor aim, poor positioning, and poor situational awareness.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 14 June 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[Volthorne]

PEEFsmash, on 14 June 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Blah blah blah

All I hear is holier-than-thou elitism pouring out of that paragraph. TL;DR: PEEF is a ***** who wants to keep all the goodies for himself. No, seriously, knock it the **** off. You've already shown how much of an *** you can be when it comes to elitism and "competitive" gaming.

Also: wtb chat-filter enable/disable option. Calling people out looks so much nicer when it's not filled with *s.

Edited by Volthorne, 14 June 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[Pater Mors]

PEEFsmash, on 14 June 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

people would ask, "Okay, so top players can deal with light circle strafing. How do you do it? What techniques do you use?"

ROFL - What world do you live in where you really think human nature works like that!?

[PEEFsmash]

Pater Mors, on 14 June 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

ROFL - What world do you live in where you really think human nature works like that!?

It works just fine in most other gaming communities that have a competitive community. Fighting games, Starcraft, MOBAs, etc.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 14 June 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[Pater Mors]

PEEFsmash, on 14 June 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

It works just fine in most other gaming communities that have a competitive community. Fighting games, Starcraft, MOBAs....

No it doesn't. It works among people that have a predisposition to be good at video games and want to work to acquire skill. It doesn't work with 99% of the cryers and whiners in 99% of games.

[ArmandTulsen]

Wasn't it their "internal testing" (what consists of this anyway?) which concluded that ECM was balanced and totally not OP when they introduced it last year?

[Ningyo]

I can see both advantages and disadvantages to 3rd person (assuming its even slightly standard)

Advantages:
Camera is located above and behind mech so you can see over hills, mechs very close behind you, and to your sides. possibly around some corners.
If view angles up when you do, you can likely see things that would be outside your view range in 1st person.

Disadvantages:
You will have more trouble firing over hills as figuring the right height to have your weapons just over the ground so you expose as little of your mech as possible will be difficult.
You will not be able to see as far at a downward angle off edges of cliffs since camera is slightly to the rear.
Aiming at the correct height to lead nearby targets may be difficult


So the real question is if you have two monitors can you have both modes going at once? then its all advantages

[EvilCow]

I will not be "pleasantly surprised" for sure, most likely I will be playing another game. I am already actively training for that, 15 days without a single MWO game and counting.

[mania3c]

PEEFsmash, on 14 June 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

It works just fine in most other gaming communities that have a competitive community. Fighting games, Starcraft, MOBAs, etc.

Even Blizzard admitted that balancing video game..even starcraft around high level play is something what is not that certain.. Balancing around competitive level is only good if it wont affect other players. If direct buff/nerf would affect casuals, they have to take different approach ..even if this easy change would fix major problem in competitive games... in fact..competitive games are good indicators, where game is broken and unbalanced..but balancing has to be done around casual play.

They even said that if they would have more casual game..not super e-sport like Starcraft..they wouldn't even balance it around competitive players.. just saying..