119 replies to this topic

[DeathofSelf]

MaddMaxx, on 25 June 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Seems to be a disconnect here somewhere. So many are griping about the AC40 and yet this proposal would basically turn the A1 SRM boat into a 70 pt Alpha even @2.0 each. Some advocate they should be 2.5 each.

Spread you say? LOL! Not when you turn that corner and take the whole 70 points to the CT. Just like the much maligned, and much less frightening as it will turn out AC40 blast.

It is a bloody wonder the Dev don't just turn the Forums off... SRM's @ 2.5 each. omfg

Balancing weapons around boats makes said weapon useless unless your are boating it (not that PGI will figure this out anytime soon)

[Jman5]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here:

Maybe they've held off from buffing the damage of SRMs because of streaks. Right now the mech bones are too close together resulting in streaks (and lrms) coring too easily. If they buffed the damage for SRMs before fixing this, there could be major problems. Perhaps once they fix this fundamental issue, they will re-adjust Short range missile damage.

[MustrumRidcully]

MaddMaxx, on 25 June 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Seems to be a disconnect here somewhere. So many are griping about the AC40 and yet this proposal would basically turn the A1 SRM boat into a 70 pt Alpha even @2.0 each. Some advocate they should be 2.5 each.

Spread you say? LOL! Not when you turn that corner and take the whole 70 points to the CT. Just like the much maligned, and much less frightening as it will turn out AC40 blast.

It is a bloody wonder the Dev don't just turn the Forums off... SRM's @ 2.5 each. omfg

2 AC/20 deal 40 damage to a single hit location.

6 SRM6s would deal 70 damage to multiple hit locations. If it's just two, it might work out to be better than the Dual AC/20, but if it's three or two and a few miss, then it's worse. No, it doesn't have to deal 40 damage to one location and 40 damage to another location to be viable - but 40 damage to one location do not have the same worth as 20 damage to two locations. You don'T weaken a mech by removing two hit locations to half hit points. You weaken them by destroying one location.

[Phemeto]

How about they rename SRM it Rockets? because honestly, thats all they are. dumb-fire straight exploding pellets. Missiles are supposed to have some sort of tracking, even if they just turn a little.

Instead of buffing SRM damage, put them to like 1 (current is 1.3ish right?) and just have they shoot twice as many rockets. they are not missiles...

[JayVrb]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

That's exactly what I said, some people don't want balance, they want the game tailored to their playstyle. People only complain about things being OP if they don't like or use them. If they do then it's Learn to Play and Adapt and Overcome. At least you're honest in asking for your style to be the best. Most people hide behind excuses to get their way.

The only problem with the meta right now is the "adapt and overcome" you speak of is nothing more than "join them". If you want to compete effectively you DESPERATELY need to equip a bunch of PPC's, Gauss, or long range "insta-hit" weapons (or go 140+kph w/ quickshot lasers). People have tried to adapt but are getting shredded when what should work, thought out strategies fail (approaching patiently, waiting for ambush, sticking together, singling out/ganging up... all this w/ brawler weapons mind you).

My point is, the only way brawlers can adapt is to... well, not brawl.

Edited by Vrbas, 25 June 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[RG Notch]

Vrbas, on 25 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

The only problem with the meta right now is the "adapt and overcome" you speak of is nothing more than "join them". If you want to compete effectively you DESPERATELY need to equip a bunch of PPC's, Gauss, or long range "insta-hit" weapons (or go 140+kph w/ quickshot lasers). People have tried to adapt but are getting shredded when what should be thought out strategies fail (approaching patiently, waiting for ambush, sticking together, singling out/ganging up... all this w/ brawler weapons mind you).

My point is, the only way brawlers can adapt is to... well, not brawl.

So obviously the solution is to make SRMS OP again. Sounds right, why look for balance when we can just tilt from OP weapon to OP weapon. I'm not advocating adapting, I'm simply saying if you get your way and SRMS are OP again then you will tell people that it's fine and people just need to adapt, i.e. use SRMS right?

[JayVrb]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

So obviously the solution is to make SRMS OP again. Sounds right, why look for balance when we can just tilt from OP weapon to OP weapon. I'm not advocating adapting, I'm simply saying if you get your way and SRMS are OP again then you will tell people that it's fine and people just need to adapt, i.e. use SRMS right?

Not the entirety of what I'm saying. If SRMs received a buff we would see the table tilt more level than the 250 degree angle it's tilting in favor of Gauss/PPC currently. People are boating these sniper builds because there's nothing anyone w/o another sniper build can do about it. Scouts are about the only thing that can work against them and it's at the mere distraction level if anything.

I'm not trying to pick sides, I would just like to see a balanced game (as I'm sure we all would). But when it comes to the lesser of two evils, I think it's leaps and bounds easier to counter OP SRMs than it is to counter PPC and Gauss heavy builds.

Edited by Vrbas, 25 June 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Kunae]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

So obviously the solution is to make SRMS OP again. Sounds right, why look for balance when we can just tilt from OP weapon to OP weapon. I'm not advocating adapting, I'm simply saying if you get your way and SRMS are OP again then you will tell people that it's fine and people just need to adapt, i.e. use SRMS right?

Hyperbole much?

Since they have removed splash damage, effectively, they should put SRMs back to at least 2.0/per, if not 2.5/per. Then we, as testers, can test their new function, to provide PGI with data.

Oh wait... we're effectively in release now, as they've never given us things to test, nor the proper tools to test or report bugs with. Not to mention they are putting a "test server" in a beta test, too.

PGI + IGP = <>winning.

Edited by Kunae, 25 June 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Kaldor]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

So obviously the solution is to make SRMS OP again. Sounds right, why look for balance when we can just tilt from OP weapon to OP weapon. I'm not advocating adapting, I'm simply saying if you get your way and SRMS are OP again then you will tell people that it's fine and people just need to adapt, i.e. use SRMS right?

It wouldnt be though and thats what people need to realize. The old problems with SRMs was primarily splash damage and an exploitable flight path. Now that those 2 things are gone, take them back to 2.5 and tune from there.

Vrbas, on 25 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Not the entirety of what I'm saying. If SRMs received a buff we would see the table tilt more level than the 250 degree angle it's tilting in favor of Gauss/PPC currently. People are boating these sniper builds because there's nothing anyone w/o another sniper build can do about it. Scouts are about the only thing that can work against them and it's at the mere distraction level if anything. I'm not trying to pick sides, I would just like to see a balanced game (as I'm sure we all would). But when it comes to the lesser of two evils, I think it's leaps and bounds easier to counter OP SRMs than it is to counter PPC and Gauss heavy builds.

Fast mechs are barely viable against a high pinpoint alpha build when you have a good shot at the controls. I shoot legs all day in my 732 and 3D....

[Xie Belvoule]

Roland, on 25 June 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Mostly.

The Rise of PPC's is related far more to the introduction of HSR for PPC's.

No, even with HSR for PPCs, if I had SRMs that did 2.5 damage with the missile HSR and a decent spread pattern these PPCs boats would be a non-issue. I would simply use terrain to close to within brawling range and engage them, end of PPC problem.

[3rdworld]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

So obviously the solution is to make SRMS OP again. Sounds right, why look for balance when we can just tilt from OP weapon to OP weapon. I'm not advocating adapting, I'm simply saying if you get your way and SRMS are OP again then you will tell people that it's fine and people just need to adapt, i.e. use SRMS right?

They were never OP other than the 2 days between the 19th and the hotfix on the 21st.

The patch that killed them was on 3/21/2013.

I have vids of me playing matched 8s on 3/13/2013. You know what I am running? A pop-tart 3D.

Your assertion that putting SRM damage back to 2.5 will make the game A1s online is unfounded.

Edited by 3rdworld, 25 June 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[RG Notch]

Vrbas, on 25 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Not the entirety of what I'm saying. If SRMs received a buff we would see the table tilt more level than the 250 degree angle it's tilting in favor of Gauss/PPC currently. People are boating these sniper builds because there's nothing anyone w/o another sniper build can do about it. Scouts are about the only thing that can work against them and it's at the mere distraction level if anything.

I'm not trying to pick sides, I would just like to see a balanced game (as I'm sure we all would). But when it comes to the lesser of two evils, I think it's leaps and bounds easier to counter OP SRMs than it is to counter PPC and Gauss heavy builds.

Oh never mind, I thought you were going to be honest. Yes yes back to excuses.

[General Taskeen]

I would rather SRMs come back with a bonus 2 birds with 1 stone balance approach.

Make them awesome. Ripple Fire, 1 missile after the other, up the damage to whatever it needs to be (2 as people suggest).

That way there is a pseudo-balance measure of ripple fire that A. Looks Awesome and B. Prevents front-loading damage, whereby the user must keep aiming to land all the hits on the Mech or on the same spot rather than ******* all the missiles in one hit. Adds uniqueness, and the big damage makes them a staple brawling weapon worth using at close range.

[MaddMaxx]

Kunae, on 25 June 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

If they are, then they're even stupider than MaddMaxx. They are, by their own statements, trying to create an "e-sport"... they shall fail in this, as they do not seem to understand that they need a consistent game for that to work.

From their history, I never see this happening.

Who let that child in here. We can't discuss anything when all one can hear is the cries of the Daycare inhabitants ffs.

As noted by another player. "We" asked that the SRM 90 point Alpha (+ crazy splash) be removed, or at least toned down. The notion of range being the great decider between AC40 and an SRM @70 or 90 is moot when you start getting killed by them. We have history as our guide on that one.

You want both "Whine and Cheese", Then just allow the SRM to get back to 2.5 and give it a decent flight path/spread. The PPC whiners will look simply docile in comparison.

[RG Notch]

3rdworld, on 25 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

They were never OP.

The patch that killed them was on 3/21/2013.

I have vids of me playing matched 8s on 3/13/2013. You know what I am running? A pop-tart 3D.

Your assertion that putting SRM damage back to 2.5 will make the game A1s online is unfounded.

No more than the assertion that OPIng SRMs again would fix the game.

[MaddMaxx]

DeathofSelf, on 25 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Balancing weapons around boats makes said weapon useless unless your are boating it (not that PGI will figure this out anytime soon)

And 2 of a Kind makes a boat?

[Kunae]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

No more than the assertion that OPIng SRMs again would fix the game.

Yay! More hyperbole!

[Corvus Antaka]

id rather see ppcs nurfed than srms buffed. srms dont seem that bad to me right now, we need to keep damage down not push it up again.

[JayVrb]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Oh never mind, I thought you were going to be honest. Yes yes back to excuses.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. I'm not advocating overpowering SRMs, but the "adapt" strategy only goes so far when things are this far out of balance; as I said before when it finally comes down to "join them or die", things are little out of whack. There is no changing strategy or evolving, there's only "do what everyone else is doing"... and thus we have the one-dimensional game that is MWO right now.

Something needs to happen to shift the table to a more equilibrium state, to give every mech, build, chasis, variant a place. I'm not entirely sure buffing SRMs would even do that, but it's something that came to mind when months back PGI said "we will revisit this SRM nerf". The game is in solid favor of Heavy/Assault and Lights right now. I think that is an issue, do you not?

[Kunae]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 25 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

id rather see ppcs nurfed than srms buffed. srms dont seem that bad to me right now, we need to keep damage down not push it up again.

The problem is, right now, that most heavy-class "pinpoint-alpha" mechs, can face off an Atlas with a good percentage of winning. An Atlas, built for brawling, should be able to easily smash a little 3D, with 2ppc's and a gauss, in cqb.