140 replies to this topic

[Soy]

Ok General MWLL that's all cool and all I just want to know what the **** PGI just did

Edited by Soy, 25 June 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[FupDup]

Victor Morson, on 25 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

It really has spiraled out of control. Let's see if we can avoid an off-topic video war from here out.

I'm tempted to find a video clip along the lines of "I propose a truce" (as in the video war) but that would kind of go against the purpose.

[BlackBeltJones]

Right or wrong (wrong but who am I to say) I will never ever give any person or any company a single penny if they refer to customers as 'bud' unless of course the customers name is Bud. I have said for some time that PGI is missing communication, they suck at it! Almost all the balance and content issues could be resolved with communication and PGI knows this but I assume they lack confidence in their upcoming products so they opt for silence and denial rather than communication and transparency.

[General Taskeen]

Soy, on 25 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Ok General MWLL that's all cool and all I just want to know what the **** PGI just did

Hey if you're mad MWLL has better balanced weapons and equipment. That's not my fault .


Anyways, games get better when Developers admit mistakes.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 June 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Soy]

This is what's about to happen



I don't mean Ktown

Edited by Soy, 25 June 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Das Boot was a good, balanced movie about what it was like for Kriegsmarine U-Boats though.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 June 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Soy]

PGI just pulled a mini Sony fiasco on themselves

Edited by Soy, 25 June 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[Soy]

Man, project phoenix wasn't the only thing that was leaked today

[Deathlike]

Soy, on 25 June 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Man, project phoenix wasn't the only thing that was leaked today

Oh? What did I miss?

Locust being DOA?

[Soy]

You missed this:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2486468

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FupDup, on 25 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

If he considers this the "best" state ever, I would seriously hate to see the worst...

Every other patch we seem to.

[skullman86]

Best state was probably some point in closed beta IMO. We still had plenty of problems, but the vast majority of them were related to the engine, not balance. The balance problems we had got worse over time because PGI couldn't or didn't want to fix them. What we have now is a bunch of problems that all stem from a smaller set of problems -- it's all so interconnected that changing one thing wont have the desired effect because it will destabilize some other change that was made prior to it.

Some examples:

LRM/SSRM - Had the current set of proposed and implemented changes been made (along with missile HSR), there might not have been a need for the heavy handed ECM implementation. Without that heavy handed implementation, PPCs and BAP would not have been turned into soft counters, and ECM would not have needed an HP nerf or dedicated slot.

PPCs - Without needing to soft counter ECM, there would be no additional demand for this weapon and there would be no reason to lower heat values. HSR and the buff to velocity might have been enough to make them usable energy weapons since they would still be the only ones capable of functioning like ballistics (for a fraction of the weight/crits even!). The ECM disruption effect and the heat reductions turned PPCs from niche (it's a sniper rifle, it should be) into standard issue. With the introduction of heavier energy based mechs, we still might have had the boats, but at least they would be running hotter.

Hardpoints - Dual Gauss, SSRM/SRM on the catapult chassis were the original FoTM, but instead of looking at hardpoint sizes while the problem was still isolated, they decided to nerf the hell out of gauss and hardcounter SSRM. Now, because they ignored the core problem, every single mech released gets looked at for possible Frankenstein configs. Role warfare cannot exist at higher tiers because the majority of the variants in the game are outclassed by a handful of variants who can do it all.

Basically, what I am getting at is this: if you build a house on a poor foundation, eventually cracks will start to show up. When that happens, you have two options

• you can patch the cracks as they show up

or

• you can fix your foundation.

Edited by skullman86, 25 June 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Deathlike]

Soy, on 25 June 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

You missed this:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2486468

Oh.. SpamWarrior Online fail.

[Soy]

what

[Sephlock]

FupDup, on 25 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

If he considers this the "best" state ever, I would seriously hate to see the worst...

The introduction of Artemis?

[Ronan]

PGI probably doesn't show up in the forums much because its full of QQ from people that are absolutely sure they represent the majority. There are no stats/info on the forums that covers the whole player base, and those players that are generally happy with the game don't generally post. You can make poll after poll, but all you are learning is the views of those that bother to respond, which is a subset of those that bother to read, which is a subset of those that play the game. The most vocal forum complainers ARE on an island. And they have no information to use to judge the size of their island.

[Victor Morson]

General Taskeen, on 25 June 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hey if you're mad MWLL has better balanced weapons and equipment. That's not my fault .

Living Legends has it's faults - the biggest being a small community due to running on an old game - but weapon balance wasn't one of them by the end. I'd say I played 3 major patches of LL that went like this for balance:

Pretty good, a few things really OP -> Really good, a few things UP -> No clear consensus on UP or OP, with almost every weapon and piece of gear serving a purpose.

If MWLL had introduced a mechlab I'm sure we'd had additional tuning to do, but not much. But a lot can be learned from that game in terms of balance. I freaking loved LRMs there, and would gladly trade (the already crappy) indirect fire we have for them any day of the week.

Ronan, on 25 June 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

PGI probably doesn't show up in the forums much because its full of QQ from people that are absolutely sure they represent the majority. There are no stats/info on the forums that covers the whole player base, and those players that are generally happy with the game don't generally post. You can make poll after poll, but all you are learning is the views of those that bother to respond, which is a subset of those that bother to read, which is a subset of those that play the game. The most vocal forum complainers ARE on an island. And they have no information to use to judge the size of their island.

Maybe you haven't heard the people talking in chat in every other game you play lately. Or the fact that you are starting to recognize almost everyone still playing from the forums, rather than the other way around.

I think the forum opinion is much more representative than you think.

Plus if you're really happy with this "Sniper config + Recon only, forever and ever" meta we're forced to play if we want to win while PGI continues introducing systems that damage the game (Arm lock, 3rd person, the stupid alpha nerf), quite frankly, I cannot reason with you.

Edited by Victor Morson, 25 June 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Ronan, on 25 June 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

PGI probably doesn't show up in the forums much because its full of QQ from people that are absolutely sure they represent the majority. There are no stats/info on the forums that covers the whole player base, and those players that are generally happy with the game don't generally post. You can make poll after poll, but all you are learning is the views of those that bother to respond, which is a subset of those that bother to read, which is a subset of those that play the game. The most vocal forum complainers ARE on an island. And they have no information to use to judge the size of their island.

Well I have friends that don't post on these forums. They played MWO too, and now they don't, since they are bored with it and don't like the balance direction. I had other friends that were on the fence and said they wouldn't touch the game until it was ready. Of course, you can take that with a grain of salt, but that's my anecdote.

Victor Morson, on 25 June 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Living Legends has it's faults - the biggest being a small community due to running on an old game - but weapon balance wasn't one of them by the end. I'd say I played 3 major patches of LL that went like this for balance:

Pretty good, a few things really OP -> Really good, a few things UP -> No clear consensus on UP or OP, with almost every weapon and piece of gear serving a purpose.

If MWLL had introduced a mechlab I'm sure we'd had additional tuning to do, but not much. But a lot can be learned from that game in terms of balance. I freaking loved LRMs there, and would gladly trade (the already crappy) indirect fire we have for them any day of the week.



Maybe you haven't heard the people talking in chat in every other game you play lately. Or the fact that you are starting to recognize almost everyone still playing from the forums, rather than the other way around.

I think the forum opinion is much more representative than you think.

Plus if you're really happy with this "Sniper config + Recon only, forever and ever" meta we're forced to play if we want to win while PGI continues introducing systems that damage the game (Arm lock, 3rd person, the stupid alpha nerf), quite frankly, I cannot reason with you.

True story, I loved the weapon balance. LRMs are great fun in that game, very powerful, but not over the top and countered by good team work. Combine that with the fact that you have to be in active radar to use them, if you want them to track a target, so everyone and their mother knew where you were before you even fired.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 June 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Valore]

While Russ is being a little overenthusiastic here, its not too surprising. He does work for PGI.

While the game has glaring flaws, I feel we're stumbling somewhat in the right direction.

Put it this way, pugging is still a horrible horrible experience, but I genuinely enjoy the game with my clan mates, and doing well in events like Last Mech Standing has been fantastic.

So yeah, for me, a mixed bag.

[RG Notch]

Wow 2 MW LL players, that's amazing. I think if you get another dozen you might have every one who ever played that mod.