135 replies to this topic

[ryoma]

I disagree with the Locust being fun in any way, but you have the right to your own opinion.

So for me and most of the players the Locust 20$ pack is terrible deal because we wouldn't use the Locust for more than a week before benching

the 40$ pack is a bad deal because of the locust and because they chose such terrible hard points for the Phoenix variant. Any smart consumer would just wait the month for Shadow Hawk and hope for an eventual Hero mech that has a better arrangement. Maybe it would be good with a Gauss PPC combo and some SSRMs.

I wont comment on the 60 or 80 dollar packs because I simply wont spend that much.

Also MASC if allowed on any mechs aside from Locust and Flea will just invalidate those two mechs more because a Jenner would be faster than the Locust/Flea with MASC, have JJ, and a better payload.

Edit: Objectively the Thunderbolt as a whole looks like it may become a stinker because it looks to be a barn door like the Awesome. The Shadow Hawk looks like it will become the go-to medium if it has good hard points. The Battlemaster Phoenix Variant has amazing hard points and would really only ever be held back by its hit boxes or weight class, but if has potential. I don't see the Locust ever being close to viable.

Edited by ryoma, 29 June 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[hammerreborn]

ryoma, on 29 June 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

I disagree with the Locust being fun in any way, but you have the right to your own opinion.

So for me and most of the players the Locust 20$ pack is terrible deal because we wouldn't use the Locust for more than a week before benching

the 40$ pack is a bad deal because of the locust and because they chose such terrible hard points for the Phoenix variant. Any smart consumer would just wait the month for Shadow Hawk and hope for an eventual Hero mech that has a better arrangement. Maybe it would be good with a Gauss PPC combo and some SSRMs.

I wont comment on the 60 or 80 dollar packs because I simply wont spend that much.

Also MASC if allowed on any mechs aside from Locust and Flea will just invalidate those two mechs more because a Jenner would be faster than the Locust/Flea with MASC, have JJ, and a better payload.

And for others the battle master isn't fun and will be benched and so the 80$ isn't worth it if we want the multiple medallions.

That's great that you aren't going to spend 60 dollars. Stop complaining that you want everything for nothing.

Ill just enjoy killing you in my Phoenix battlemaster for three months

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 June 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Mahws]

hammerreborn, on 29 June 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

That's great that you aren't going to spend 60 dollars. Stop complaining that you want everything something of reasonable value for nothing the price point you're willing/capable of paying.

Fixed that for you. I'm sure you, being a mature adult, didn't actually intend to childishly dismiss his point of view with a needless straw-man attack.

[hammerreborn]

Mahws, on 29 June 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Fixed that for you. I'm sure you, being a mature adult, didn't actually intend to childishly dismiss his point of view with a needless straw-man attack.

His point of view is that he wants an assault mech (which costs consistently higher than all other mechs) three months early for the same price as a light mech on release day.

And I'm the child?

[ICEFANG13]

hammerreborn, on 29 June 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

His point of view is that he wants an assault mech (which costs consistently higher than all other mechs) three months early for the same price as a light mech on release day.

And I'm the child?

A light mech for MC is around $2.72 (Commando-1B with the $100 dollar pack, minus tax)-$13.9 (Raven-3L with buying only the 7 dollar one, multiple times, minus tax), an assault is around 10.44 (Awesome-8R with the $100 dollar pack, minus tax)-$41.7 (Misery with buying only the 7 dollar one, multiple times, minus tax).

Again, lights, $2.72-13.9
Assualts, $10.44-41.7

I think him wanting to pay, as he said, $30 dollars for it, is a lot more than wanting to pay for a light mech.

Also you know, as a fellow light pilot, the Locust's only advantages can be acceleration, deceleration, torso twist, and hit box. If it is lacking in these features compared to the Spider, it will be worthless. Fun or not, some people don't enjoy using terrible mechs.

[ryoma]

hammerreborn, on 29 June 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

His point of view is that he wants an assault mech (which costs consistently higher than all other mechs) three months early for the same price as a light mech on release day.

And I'm the child?

Yes, most definitely. I disagreed with your opinion while maintaining your right to keep it and proceeded to explain my opinion. You then proceeded to Ad Hominem, something very child like.

Also if you had been reading the thread I have stated numerous times that the problem is that the 20-40$ packs have no value for the majority of players, so for people who wouldn't spend more than 40$ on a game in one month, there's no reason to buy a phoenix pack.

Now if I intended never to spend money on this game I wouldn't have made this thread would I? I made this thread because I want to buy a Phoenix pack, but I don't want to feel shafted in doing so.

I want to spend money on MWO, I want to spend 20-40$ and not feel ripped off. I don't actually want a Battlemaster at all, I want a ShadowHawk.

Edit: Also if one believes the Battlemaster not to be fun, they have 3 other options that don't involve paying for it. If one believes the Locust not to be fun then they have no options that excise it.

Edited by ryoma, 29 June 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Josef Nader]

If all the crap you're getting isn't reason enough to buy a phoenix pack, then you're just going to have to accept that the phoenix packs aren't worth it to you and pass. There are plenty of good reasons for PGI to put the Battlemaster and Thunderbolt behind a paywall. Plenty of people are rapidly evacuating money from their wallets to cross it. If it's not worth it to you, that's your perogative. Demanding that PGI give you a pack that lets you buy a Founders assault and two other assault mechs 3 months before they're supposed to launch for sticker price of three non-hero assaults is just plain silly.

[Deathlike]

The value isn't there... at least I think the Locust is DOA, so it would never be worth the $20 that is required for that package, despite the mechbays that come with it.

However, I think PGI is really missing out on an opportunity for those people who want specific mechs not named the Locust.

It would probably be beneficial to have a package that address this, for the equivalent reasonable price... as some have suggested in the thread.. but I think there's a better "option" you should actually petition PGI for..

When the drop dead date of this deal comes to pass (Oct 15), I think some post-Phoenix Project offers should be on the table. Those who have already prepaid in advance will still get theirs, but potentially those people who still want their Battlemaster or Thunderbolt should have a deal where they can still get the mechs they want..

For instance... (note, this deal would happen once the Oct 15 date has passed)
$20 for the Shadow Hawk + related variants + mechbays
$40 for the Shadow Hawk + Thunderbolt + related variants + mechbays (with possibly 30 days of premium)
$60 for the Shadow Hawk + Thunderbolt + Battlemsater + related variants + mechbays (with possibly 30 days of premium)

Something like should be looked into and can promote real value... this deal would only appear for a month (and the mechs be received once the Shadow Hawk is released to all), but should satisfy the "value" reasoning that does plagues the current deal.

#s can be adjusted and I don't think the related variants are that important, but that's the jist of what PGI can do to still make money w/o jeopardizing those that have paid in advance.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 June 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[ryoma]

Josef Nader, on 29 June 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

If all the crap you're getting isn't reason enough to buy a phoenix pack, then you're just going to have to accept that the phoenix packs aren't worth it to you and pass. There are plenty of good reasons for PGI to put the Battlemaster and Thunderbolt behind a paywall. Plenty of people are rapidly evacuating money from their wallets to cross it. If it's not worth it to you, that's your perogative. Demanding that PGI give you a pack that lets you buy a Founders assault and two other assault mechs 3 months before they're supposed to launch for sticker price of three non-hero assaults is just plain silly.

You have piqued my curiosity.

By "all the crap your getting" which pack are you referring to?

Talon pack? 3 light mechs that will be DOA, 1 month of premium, and a forum badge. If I wanted three mech bays and a month of premium MC is a better value.

40$ package? 3 Medium mechs (one of which having terrible hardpoints and un-scrapable) 2 mech bays (the phoenix Locust likely wont be scrapable) 1 month of premium, and I think a medallion? I could get more from 40$ in MC.

It's not that "the Phoenix packs are not for me" it's that they suck.

[Josef Nader]

Again, you're bitching because the Locust and the Shadow Hawk aren't going to be competitive, not because the pack isn't a good deal. If you aren't interested in the Locust or the Shadow Hawk, just wait for the better mechs to drop. Don't claim that they're bad deals because you don't like the mechs in the package.

EDIT: Again, remember that a hero Assault costs ~$35 right now. By asking for a $30 package that gives you a hero assault and two additional assaults, you're grossly undervaluing the Hero Battlemaster. $20 is about what it would cost to buy the Hero Locust, two more locusts, and the slots to put them in. You're getting some bonus premium for the $20 pack. It just keeps going up from there.

Edited by Josef Nader, 30 June 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[Mahws]

They're not hero mechs. Same as founders, no unique hard point layout. So if we're assigning theoretical MC value that's a lot less.

Even then, claiming that the $20 pack is good value because it has roughly $20 of MC value doesn't make any sense. If they were charging the theoretical MC value of the mechs in any of the higher tier packs it would run into the hundreds of dollars. And that's ignoring all of the extra bonuses they get. The $60 and $80 packs are good deals because they give you more than the value of what you're paying, the $20 pack and to a lesser extent the $40 pack don't.

The $20 & $40 pack are massively over valued when compared to the $60-$80 packs. I get giving more to people who pay more, but the scale is way, way off.

The $20 pack doesn't even offer you anything that $20 of MC can't buy other than the forum badge and the worthless cbill boost on what will undoubtedly be the worst mech in the game for earning money.

It's a bad deal not just because the locust is a bad mech. Completely ignoring the gameplay value of the mech, it gives you nothing for your money that the same money can't buy spent when the mech actually comes out. That's nothing but bad marketing.

Edited by Mahws, 30 June 2013 - 04:23 AM.

[Josef Nader]

Sure, the higher tier you go the better deal you get. This is how all of PGI's monitization schemes have worked so far. Why are people surprised by this?

The more MC/Premium Time you buy at once, the more you get, often with a very large gap in value. It's how the system is built.

[Apoc1138]

I got the $80 pack because I want the battlemaster and all the other fluff throw in for free was enough of a good deal that I just stumped up for it, as pointed out above, the single mech pack for founders was $60, not $30, so even though the $80 pack includes a lot more mechs than the original $120 pack did, the new choose your one mech pack shouldn't be $30, it should be more like $50, at which point, an extra $30 for all those free mech bays, cbills and equipment becomes a no brainer in any case

[Riptor]

Quote

[color=#959595]His point of view is that he wants an assault mech (which costs consistently higher than all other mechs) three months early for the same price as a light mech on release day.[/color]

What a load of bull. There is absolutely no reason for an assault to cost more then a light mech. After all PGI keeps telling us that all mechs are equal right? All mechs are of the same value on the battlefield right?

And ontop of that its not like you buy a REAL assault mechs that costs more money to make.

Chance is a assault mech is easier to make for the game then a light mech because the assault mech moves much slower, doesnt need as much work on its hitboxes etc.

This is just stupid logic that does not work for a completly digital game being brought over from the real world where bigger = more expensive.

To bad that all those mechs are lines of codes that have an artificial price points slapped onto them and you "faithfull" costumers are swallowing the coolaid.

Edited by Riptor, 30 June 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Ronan]

ryoma, on 25 June 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Founders pack we got to choose. Limiting choice can only lose them money.

Founder's pack cost more. Charging less for more mechs, bays, and premium time can only something something...

Edited by Ronan, 30 June 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Your poll is fail, if you select "No' at the beginning, you cannot register you vote because the rest of the questions have no n/a as an option. Your poll is rigged, fix it.

[stjobe]

Apoc1138, on 30 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

the single mech pack for founders was $60, not $30

This needs to be quoted.

The Founder packs were:
Legendary ($120): Four 'mechs, 90 days premium time, 20,000MC and some other stuff.
Elite ($60): One 'mech, 60 days premium, 20,000MC, and some other stuff.
Veteran ($30): NO MECH, 30 days premium, 10,000MC, and some other stuff.

So the least you had to pay to get a single 'mech was $60.

Suddenly $80 for twelve 'mechs doesn't seem so bad, now does it?

[ryoma]

stjobe, on 30 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

This needs to be quoted.

The Founder packs were:
Legendary ($120): Four 'mechs, 90 days premium time, 20,000MC and some other stuff.
Elite ($60): One 'mech, 60 days premium, 20,000MC, and some other stuff.
Veteran ($30): NO MECH, 30 days premium, 10,000MC, and some other stuff.

So the least you had to pay to get a single 'mech was $60.

Suddenly $80 for twelve 'mechs doesn't seem so bad, now does it?

No, because founders pack also contained ridiculous amounts of MC.
The larger packs being good or decent doesn't change the fact that the smaller packs are bad. If someone want to spend 20-40 dollars on this game, they have no real options except buying MC. Phoenix packs are **** for people who don't have 60-80$ to spend on this game in one month.

Gremlich Johns, on 30 June 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Your poll is fail, if you select "No' at the beginning, you cannot register you vote because the rest of the questions have no n/a as an option. Your poll is rigged, fix it.

No, no it is not. None of the other questions are actually related to question 1.

Question 2: Which Phoenix Mechs are you interested in?
Has no connection to which ones you bought or didn't buy, just which ones you want to play.

question 3: Would you like a 30$ tier for one mech of choice?
Simply asks if you want a 30$ tier added and you can simply say no if you don't want things to change or say yes if you think that's fair.

Question 4: If you could only pick one, which would it be?
Has no relation to question 1 at all. It's simply to find out which mechs people are buying these Phoenix packs for.



A lot of people in this thread are reading with per-determined conclusions and forcing words into the mouths of the people arguing against them. Shameful.

[stjobe]

ryoma, on 30 June 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

No, because founders pack also contained ridiculous amounts of MC.
The larger packs being good or decent doesn't change the fact that the smaller packs are bad. If someone want to spend 20-40 dollars on this game, they have no real options except buying MC. Phoenix packs are **** for people who don't have 60-80$ to spend on this game in one month

Most of the people I've seen in this thread arguing that the lower-tier Phoenix packs are bad seem to do so because they want the Thunderbolt or the Battlemaster, but don't want to spend $60 or $80 for them. There's also some that seem to think the two lower-tier packages are bad because they're of the opinion that the Locust or Shadow Hawk will be bad 'mechs when Oct 15th rolls around.

For the first category I have little sympathy; In my mind if they don't want to pay the offered price they can wait until the 'mechs are released to the general public. If they still "want to spend money on MWO" in the meantime, they can buy MC. What they can't do is to cry and moan about not getting what they want at half the price everyone else is getting it.

The second category, well, they seem to think nothing will change to the meta for four months. Perhaps that will be true, but it's by no means a certainty. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of current PPC-boat assault pilots in this group who are trying to conceal that what they want is the same as the first group; they want the heavy 'mechs for the price of the light 'mechs.

Finally, it seems these packs are selling like hotcakes. Apparently the price is right for a lot of people. Would PGI have made more money with another price structure? Possibly, but they may equally well have lost money. The only thing I know is that a majority of the people I've talked with have purchased the $80 package without any qualms - in fact, most are commenting on what a great deal it is.

[Volume]

stjobe, on 30 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

The only thing I know is that a majority of the people I've talked with have purchased the $80 package without any qualms - in fact, most are commenting on what a great deal it is.

Typical Stockholm Syndrome.

stjobe, on 30 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

This needs to be quoted.

The Founder packs were:
Legendary ($120): Four 'mechs, 90 days premium time, 20,000MC and some other stuff.
Elite ($60): One 'mech, 60 days premium, 20,000MC, and some other stuff.
Veteran ($30): NO MECH, 30 days premium, 10,000MC, and some other stuff.

So the least you had to pay to get a single 'mech was $60.

Suddenly $80 for twelve 'mechs doesn't seem so bad, now does it?

That's much different. That was a YEAR ago. They went on sale June 19th 2012. The game was different and many people purchased bundles to get into the beta, and had different expectations for where the game would be right now.