46 replies to this topic

[Huge]

You can buy them with c-bills. Which at this point if you've been playing since beta you should be drowning in. Yes the c-bill boost is nice but look back to the Founder's Program. They purposely selected mechs which were good but not the best. Typically second pick of the litter. So you may have a Unseen with a boost. It more then likely would not be the Unseen model you would want to be using most of the time.

They had their money and their funneled it away from MWO and squandered it. When someone shows they cannot handle a large pot of money. The last thing you do it give them even more. Let them learn how to use reasonable amounts for reasonable results. Then if it is shown they can handle it. Let them make content worth of such insane cash dumps.

Well with that attitude I cannot even debate you. Who cares how much you make or how much spare scratch you have lying around to spend on video games? It is the principle of the thing and the very real danger of you hindering MWO more then helping. The same attitude is shared with people who endorse privacy invading oversight by the Government.

I mean if you have the spare cash why not blow it?

Its not like you have anything to hide so why not allow us to see what you're doing inside your home and what you do online?

[Deathlike]

zraven7, on 26 June 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

For some people, the Lore behind the locust is reason to get it. That's a large part of all of these mechs: There is a large amount of Lore behind all of them.

I would grind the Spider before I'd consider the DOA Locust in the current meta.

[Signal27]

There is also how they might buff the Locust down the road to take into consideration. In fact, from what the devs have said, they want to eventually increase the speed cap as well as add MASC (internal structure option that makes mechs go faster like a turbo boost) to the game. So while a Locust (or a Flea for that matter) might seem "meh" at this point, it might become much better later on.

[Deathlike]

Signal27, on 26 June 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

There is also how they might buff the Locust down the road to take into consideration. In fact, from what the devs have said, they want to eventually increase the speed cap as well as add MASC (internal structure option that makes mechs go faster like a turbo boost) to the game. So while a Locust (or a Flea for that matter) might seem "meh" at this point, it might become much better later on.

This still begs the question.. when is the Flea going to arrive? It's already projected to be DOA as is.

[stjobe]

Deathlike, on 26 June 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

This still begs the question.. when is the Flea going to arrive? It's already projected to be DOA as is.

Best guess is August: Victor in July, Flea in August, Orion in September, and the Phoenix 'mechs in October-January.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mahws, on 25 June 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

The Locust 1V is the mech that your first $20 gets you. Considering that it'll be available to everyone else on the exact same day and will only cost 1 Mil Cbills, what you're really getting is the skin and the 30%Cbill/10%Loyalty earning boost. And 3 mechbays. Which may sound attractive, but at the very, very best you'll be breaking even with how much you'd earn with any other light mech.

That's because the Locust 1V is;

A Spider 5K with:
16 points less CT armor.
8 Points less side torso armor.
8 Points less leg armor.
8 points less arm armor.
4 required out of engine heatsinks (making for a total of 4 or 12 slots taken and 1.2 effective heatsinks lost if using doubles)
No lower arm actuators.
No jumpjets.
4.5 tonnes less to spend on weapons/ammo/sinks.*

For context, the Locust-1V can't even fit a Large Laser and 4xMG. The best you can reasonably do with it is a MPL + 4MG or an AC/2 with a single tonne of ammo. PPC aren't an option as the energy hardpoint is CT.

The other Locust variants will be better when it comes to weapons (they have a fair amount of energy slots, or some energy + missile), but they still won't have the tonnage to make anything useful of them. Too few Heatsinks to boat energy, too few missiles to SRM effectively. And that's not even taking into account the paper thin armor.

The locust will be, without a shadow of a doubt, an incredibly inferior mech. No amount of size reduction (and judging by the current scaling there won't be much) will put it on equal footing to any other light mech. It may be fun to pilot (if you really enjoy the different shape of the cockpit) but trying to level it, let alone play with it will be a massive, massive grind of failure and frustration. You will definitely not be using it to grind CBills.

If you still think you'll enjoy it, or you want early access to the other Phoenix mechs then don't let me stop you, but for those still on the fence, have a good think about what your first $20 is going towards.


* Frame weighs one tonne less (2.0 compared to 3.0). Adding in savings from a XL170 compared to a XL255 (4.5 tonnes) makes for 5.5 tonnes saved with 10 tonnes weight difference.

I actually agree on this. There MIGHT be a fun factor to playing this mech but that is all there is going to be so even with a 30% bonus, don't expect to be bringing in the C-bills.

Still that wouldn't be a deal breaker on the $80 package if the other mechs were good. However after seeing the hardpoint distribution on the Shadow Hawk, it looks like we don't have just one useless hero mech, but two of them. 3 Ballastic, 3 Missile and only ONE energy. What they hell are you suppose to do with that on a 55 ton mech? Your either going to be mounting 3 MGs to free up for a ER PPC and a decent missile loadout or do an AC/5 or UAC/5 and downgrade your missiles. It really needs at least 2 Energy to get any sort of decent firepower. At least then you could mount a couple medium lasers or something.

Anyway, the Shadow Hawk reveal has pretty much bounced me off the fence, moreso than the useless Locust.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 26 June 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[flying1ace]

zraven7, on 26 June 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

For some people, the Lore behind the locust is reason to get it. That's a large part of all of these mechs: There is a large amount of Lore behind all of them.

Ding! And he wins the jar of Bullseyes!

[Mahws]

Abaddun, on 26 June 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Granted the combat capabilities are mediocre, but the locust was designed as a reconnaissance mech which therefore implies it should be used like one, with a tag to aid missile boats though spotting /marking and mgs to clean up after a brawl. And I will be honest, the mech will curb the aggressive tendencies of many light pilots out there.

It runs no faster than any other light. It won't be noticeably smaller (because the 'Mando isn't noticeably smaller than the Spider, same tonnage difference).

A spider can mount a TAG and MGs and do exactly what you just suggested, with more armor and jump jets. No one chooses to do that now, no one will choose to do that when they can do it in a weaker version.

stjobe, on 26 June 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

OP's line of reasoning ultimately leads to "why take anything but a 100-tonner".

What was it the strawman wanted? A heart? Or was that tin?

I'm not talking about competitive play. If I was, I wouldn't be comparing it to the Spider-5K.

I've mastered (not elite, master) every spider. I'm halfway through on my three 'Mandos. My other two mechs of choice are the Dragon (4x Mastered) and the Awesome (Just getting started). I know taking handicapped mechs for fun better than most players. That doesn't change the fact the the Locust will be an order of magnitude harder to play in than any of the existing lights though. Most people aren't masochists, they enjoy a challenge, not getting repeatedly exploded by hard looks. I'll buy and play the Locust when it comes out and enjoy it, but we're the exception, not the rule.

For the people who aren't like us, who enjoy such arcane concepts as 'fairness' or a 'fighting chance' the locust is going to be a terrible mech and not one they'll enjoy.

Signal27, on 26 June 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

There is also how they might buff the Locust down the road to take into consideration. In fact, from what the devs have said, they want to eventually increase the speed cap as well as add MASC (internal structure option that makes mechs go faster like a turbo boost) to the game. So while a Locust (or a Flea for that matter) might seem "meh" at this point, it might become much better later on.

Afraid not. If you remove the engine cap larger lights will benefit more.
The Locust has so little weight to spend that it's going to struggle to handle a decent weapon loadout at an XL170 (4 ML and the equivelant of 2 extra heatsinks after adjusting for value lost from the external engine sinks). Larger mechs on the other hand can squeeze in the extra tonnage, especially if you're downsizing the weapon loadout to the same as what a Locust could carry. So same weapons, more armor, more speed.

MASC will only further benefit those bigger engines.

Edited by Mahws, 26 June 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

Zyzyx66, on 25 June 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Is it just me, or is this all that matters?

Skadi, on 25 June 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Battlemaster or bust.

Precisely. I won't pilot the Battlemaster because it has the superior loadout and the best mech to field in the game. I will pilot it because thinking back to MW2:31stCC, a Kell Hound Battlemaster scared me shitless (looking at you, JF Morges campaign). I want to walk the battlefield one of my top-5 favorite battlemechs of all time. And if it costs me $80, then I am happy to support the people who made this happen once more (just as I was pleased as ever on my founders purchase).

It's all about fun people.

[Morang]

I guess it's possible that torso laser mount will be slaved to "arms" reticle on Locust, allowing for wide vertical arc of fire. On the original artwork laser was turreted, and on the FD's artwork it seems like it's able to swivel at least vertically.

[LeShadow]

stjobe, on 26 June 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

For your $80 you get twelve 'mechs - four of which are basically Hero 'mechs. And you get the 'mechbays to hold all twelve.
You also get 90 days of premium, or 120 days if you order within a month.

That's pretty good value for money, actually.

I really don't understand that reasoning. First of all, who needs 120 days of premium? I get buying a little premium time now and again of you don't play a lot, to help with the grind, but the only reason for that much would be if you wanted a lot of new 'Mechs as quickly as possible.

Which would make sense if you didn't already get a huge pile o' 'Mechs with the package. Most of which you could simply buy with the CB from your 120 days of premium.

Same goes for the 30% CB boost. On top of premium, that just sounds like overkill to me.

Also, 12 'Mechs, yes. How many people will really play (and not just test-drive for two or three matches) all twelve variants and not sell a sinlge one? Heck, how many will even play all 4 Phoenix 'Mechs?


IMHO, It's "pretty good value for money" in the same way that "buy a 20-pack of staplers, get a paperweight and this super-efficient lightbulb for free" would be. Great if you just so happen to need 20 staplers, a lightbulb and paperweight, but I suspect that's a rare occurrence. Even if the paperweight is just awesome and you reckon you could always stock up on lightbulbs, who the hell needs 20 staplers?

Not saying it's all rubbish. I could always use more mechbays, and that LP boost might be very useful, but I guess I'll rather buy my bays (one of the few things that aren't overpriced in MWO) with MC and miss out on the $80 skins and title.

[Windsaw]

They have to drop the mandatory 10 HS.
It already hurt a couple of Commando builds. A mech with 5 tons less will almost automatically be crippled.

[Signal27]

Mahws, on 26 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Afraid not. If you remove the engine cap larger lights will benefit more.
The Locust has so little weight to spend that it's going to struggle to handle a decent weapon loadout at an XL170 (4 ML and the equivelant of 2 extra heatsinks after adjusting for value lost from the external engine sinks). Larger mechs on the other hand can squeeze in the extra tonnage, especially if you're downsizing the weapon loadout to the same as what a Locust could carry. So same weapons, more armor, more speed.

A significantly smaller size than even a 35 tonner would probably make 20-tonners still worth piloting in spite of everything you mentioned.

Edited by Signal27, 27 June 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[627]

you have to look a bit different on the locust. its not a DoA mech, its the new difficulty setting:

Beginner: Stalker
medium: Catapult
hard: Dragon
hardcore: Spider
nightmare: Locust

It is part of the new challenge system, with achievements for everything:
Survive for 5 Minutes.
Get to the other Base without damage.
Get to the other Base without dying.
Shoot someone twice before dying.
Stay near your Atlas buddy without gettin squished by his left foot.

No doubt the Locust will be fun and that's what matters. I don't care about mech efficiencies, they won't help you in that thing.

But with a bit of luck it will be shorter than a commando and really hard to hit, so it would be a real annoyance and that would be pretty cool.

[Milt]

the only way the locust will be truly viable is if and when we have tonnage balance. if it can do what a 30ton mech can then why take the 30 ton over it? its kind of the same argument as why take a light if you can take a cicada without penalty?

[wickwire]

but... but... it's a Locust

[Kdogg788]

Theoretically, the Locust is pretty much the fastest and most maneuverable mech in the game. Whether that translates to a competitive advantage, who knows. The only thing I'm assured of is getting my favorite unseen and a mech that will be super fun to play, hence I really only need the $20 package.

-k

[Liev Andropov]

The reason the Locust isn't really viable seems due more to the C-bill and XP mechanics. Scouting and base capping doesn't grant the resources needed to purchase upgrades and level up skills. Destroying arms and legs, doing damage, and getting the killshot does. That's why the light scout mechs (non-Jenner, non-3L) are such a grind to level up, because the leveling takes significantly longer than it does with a damage dealer.

Unless PGI is looking to modify the C-bill and XP mechanics or upgrade values for light mechs, they will remain "unhelpful." Given that we haven't heard anything about such a modification, there's not much of a reason for someone who doesn't know the Locust lore to want that mech.

[Snowcrow]

I really want the shadow hawk.. but I'm not interested in the locus at all.. Think I'll just wait a month and get the c-bill versions. The hero version suck anyway.

[Bagheera]

stjobe, on 26 June 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

For your $80 you get twelve 'mechs - four of which are basically Hero 'mechs.

Sorry, got to pick a nit with you. They're stock load-outs. That makes them akin to Founder's mechs rather than Hero mechs which are a unique load out.

I agree that the pricing is pretty good for this pack - despite the lack of MC - but I think we should try to reduce the confusion surrounding the various mech types (Standard, Founder, Champion, Hero, Phoenix) - some people couldn't keep them straight before PP.