522 replies to this topic

[Kyle Polulak]

Tell us what you think of the Upcoming Movement Changes

Spoiler

Thad Jantzi, on 27 June 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Okay everybody, listen up - this is important.
The upcoming patch brings with it dramatic changes in the way your mech will interact with sloped ground. Gone are the days of running up a 75° slope as though it was no more than a gentle incline. Mechs will now have to work harder to climb slopes, and the threshold at which slopes cease to be traversable will be considerably lower than it was before.
In this post I will explain exactly how these changes will affect each type of mech, and we will include color-coded maps depicting the severity of the slopes in every level so that we can all have a reference as to where our mechs can go, where our mechs can't go, and where we can expect the mechs to slow down.
For the purposes of these movement changes, there are five movement archetypes. Each one has a different threshold at which its Mechs will begin to slow down. I'll call this SlowdownAngle. The SlowdownAngle is different for each archetype. Here is a list of the archetypes, and which mech belongs in which archetype. You will notice that the archetype does not necessarily coincide with the mech's weight class.
Tiny: Jenner, Commando, Spider
SlowdownAngle: 40°
Small: Raven, Cicada
SlowdownAngle: 35°
Medium: Blackjack, Centurion, Dragon, JagerMech, Trebuchet, Cataphract, Hunchback
SlowdownAngle: 30°
Large: Quickdraw, Stalker, Awesome, Catapult
SlowdownAngle: 25°
Huge: Atlas, Highlander, Victor
SlowdownAngle: 20°
In addition to the SlowdownAngle, there is a slope level which no mech can traverse. That angle is 45°. For an easy reference as to which slopes are 45°, take a look at Alpine Peaks. Where you see white snow, the slope is less than 45°. Where you see dark coloured rock, the slope is greater than 45°, and you cannot climb it.
So, the easy rule to remember is that every mech can travel over any slope less than 20° with no slowdown whatsoever, and at any 45° slope the mech's movement is reduced to 0. These slowdowns aren't instant, so there is the potential for an extremely fast mech to gather enough momentum to travel some way up a slope of 45° or greater, but in most cases a 45° slope acts, in effect, as a wall. In addition, I should also note that running into an actual vertical wall reduces the mech's forward movement considerably, so you will no longer have the ability to navigate by perpetually bumping into stuff.
To compute how much of a slowdown you can expect on a particular slope, the formula is quite simple. Just less than your mech's SlowdownAngle, you'll be going at 100% speed. At 45° you'll be going at 0% speed. In between those two values, the slowdown is linear.
For example, the Catapult is a member of the "large" movement archetype, whose SlowdownAngle is 25°. If a Catapult walks up a slope of 35° (halfway between the SlowdownAngle of 25° and the StopAngle of 45°) it will be traveling at 50% of its normal speed. On a 30° slope it would travel at 75% of its normal speed, and on a 40° slope it would travel at 25% of its normal speed.
Some maps this won't make a lick of difference. Others it will completely transform. I urge everyone to carefully inspect the following diagrams and see if your usual routes or favourite spots are going to be compromised by these changes. You can't climb up the sheer cliff walls on Alpine Peaks any more. You can't scoot up to the top of the crystal shards on Tourmaline Desert any more. The high ground in Canyon Network is nowhere near as accessible as it once was.
It has been my experience that these changes make for a dramatically improved gameplay experience and I hope that will be the case for everyone else too.
Thanks for listening. As you were.

[Featherwood]

I've been waiting for this change so long, thanks lads, you've lighten a tiny spark of hope in my soul again. Maybe this game will evolve into something really exiting despite all the mistakes done.

Edit: made those maps my dynamic wallpaper

Edited by Featherwood, 27 June 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

FINALLY! THANK YOU!

This will breath new life into these maps. When can we expect to see the changes? The longer we wait, the longer it takes to break old habits. The sooner the better.

Edit: [Redacted] After further inspection I feel that 45° is a good stopping point. I had to visualize the slopes.

Spoiler

What about going down slopes? How will that work? Finally I would like to see some kind of navigation module or visual mode, that allows users to see what's traversable. Something like the old NAV point system, but with a GPS guidance module for the most efficient routes. Or a visual mode with a 3D overlay of the slope maps. This would be a nice tool to keep new players from continuously getting stuck on 40° walls.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 28 June 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[FrDrake]

Good change IMO, makes it more simish, makes JJ more useful as a mobility tool.

[Zeus X]

Now this is a CHANGE I approve of.

Thumbs up Devs.

[Tennex]

what about a speed up for going down slope

doesn't make sense to to have one without the other

not sure why sizing has anything to do with speed up an incline, if anything it has more to do with the mass, as well as traction/mechanics of locomotion

best solution would probably be to use a differnt set of categories for hill climbing ability and call it
[Maneuverability]. This new trait will be strictly used for speed of mech up an incline mostly based on a mech's tonnage. Plus it can be sort of a quirk for certain mechs. (mech A has better climbing quirk etc.)

[size] - the catagorization they currently use now for both movement and collision box, will instead be exclusive for collision box. So that the physical size of a mech has no play on how it can climb hills.

Edited by Tennex, 01 July 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[DeathofSelf]

Yes, yes and yes.. The only thing I would say is that I think there needs to be something between the "medium" and "large". Putting the Cataphract and Hunchback in the same category seems odd to me.

When will we see this in game?

Edit: I second Tennex, maybe something a little more scaled down though, and over 45 degrees causes a fall (when it's added back it)

Edited by DeathofSelf, 27 June 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[FrDrake]

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

what about a speed up for going down slope

doesn't make sense to to have one without the other

Mechs already accelerate beyond their normal top speed when sliding down slopey cliffs. Have you never seen an atlas slide down the tall mountain in alpine? It's like he's on a slip and slide into a brick wall because he suddenly stops at the end of the slope and takes little to no fall dmg. Makes him impossible to shoot until he's done sliding too because when he's going to stop isn't so apparent.

[Foust]

Approved

[Tennex]

FrDrake, on 27 June 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Mechs already accelerate beyond their normal top speed when sliding down slopey cliffs. Have you never seen an atlas slide down the tall mountain in alpine? It's like he's on a slip and slide into a brick wall because he suddenly stops at the end of the slope and takes little to no fall dmg. Makes him impossible to shoot until he's done sliding too because when he's going to stop isn't so apparent.

thats during slip though. during slip mechs have no control over direction of movement. and doesn't really move faster, its just falling.

but even when a mech has traction, and control over movement, its still supposed to speed up when going down hill.

if you read the speed meter in your car travelling uphill, the car will have reduced speeds. if you go down a hill the car will speed up without you pressing any more on the gas.

It just makes sense lol

Edited by Tennex, 27 June 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Coolant]

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

what about a speed up for going down slope

doesn't make sense to to have one without the other

^^^This, +1

[Galen Crayn]

Nice move... They do not bring new maps but they give us the old one in better... Come on PGI, thats a nice start but we still need new maps and so many other things (ballance, ui2.0, cw...)

Edited by Galen Crayn, 27 June 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[LaserAngel]

I love it a lot. I'm pouring over the maps to see where I won't be able to go. I just wish the Stalker was pushed into the Huge Category. The Awesome at 80 tons should have a little perk.

Though I was surprised to see the Victor (80 tons) in Huge while the Stalker (85 tons) is in Large with the Awesome (80 tons).

My Catapult C1 is now king of the hill on Forest Colony now along with the Blackjack! Jump Jets are much more meaningful now.

[FrDrake]

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

thats during slip though. during slip mechs have no control over direction of movement. and doesn't really move faster, its just falling.

but even when a mech has traction, and control over movement, its still supposed to speed up when going down hill.

if you read the speed meter in your car travelling uphill, the car will have reduced speeds. if you go down a hill the car will speed up without you pressing any more on the gas.

It just makes sense lol

I gotcha, you're looking for the old "don't get in front of the 18 wheeler when he goes down the hill" acceleration. Yea, I'd support that too !

[Rusty Shackleferd]

DeathofSelf, on 27 June 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Yes, yes and yes.. The only thing I would say is that I think there needs to be something between the "medium" and "large". Putting the Cataphract and Hunchback in the same category seems odd to me.

When will we see this in game?

Edit: I second Tennex, maybe something a little more scaled down though, and over 45 degrees causes a fall (when it's added back it)

I agree that there could be better division of certain mechs in slowdown scheme. I do recall that certain leg types are better at climbing slopes than others. For instance, the "man-walker" legs are suppose to be better at climbing hills. The "chicken-legs" are better for speed on flat plains. With this in mind, the cataphact should be in the same place as the catapult. In addition, the atlas and stalker would have their positions swapped. To conclude, have you ever seen a chicken run up a mountain?

[superbob]

This made me want to cry... Tears of joy.

[Curccu]

Do I regret giving you 80$ couple days ago, NO?

(Did I before this news, no.)

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

this is a good change, almost a substitute for knockdown.

we still need knockdown and stagger though, light mechs currently don't have to watch where they're going when being effective.

this will also make jump jets valuable, i wonder how my gauss kitty will fare as its in the large category without jump jets

Edited by Battlecruiser, 27 June 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Revorn]

This could go to get very intresting. Good Work PGI. +1

[Chavette]

Like:
Everything, except:

Don't like:
1,Alpine has great potential to be a walk ~6 minutes around mountains for a shootout as opposed to the current walk ~3 minutes for a shootout.
2, No more magic numbers! We already have 1, Tonnage, 2 Weight Class, 3 Slopeslow Class? Think of the children!!! Don't turn it into ExcelSheetMemorizerWarriror, you have all the tools you need for these classes, without making new ones up, just because.

The engine size has nothing to do with how/when you slow down? Neither the tonnage? Cmon now.

Edited by Chavette, 27 June 2013 - 11:20 AM.