522 replies to this topic

[malibu43]

Like the changes!!!!

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

thats during slip though. during slip mechs have no control over direction of movement. and doesn't really move faster, its just falling. but even when a mech has traction, and control over movement, its still supposed to speed up when going down hill. if you read the speed meter in your car travelling uphill, the car will have reduced speeds. if you go down a hill the car will speed up without you pressing any more on the gas. It just makes sense lol

Rolling down a hill on wheels is different than running down a hill on legs. The mechanics of walking/running are a little more complicated.

Imagine running as fast as you can on flat ground. Now imagine putting that same "effort" (ie - run as fast as you can) down a 45 degree slope. Will you run faster? Hmmm... you might get to the bottom of the hill faster, but you'll probably have screwed up a knee, ankle, broken a bone, and probably rolled a good part of way down. You'll probably have to move down that hill slower than you would on flat ground to maintain the same stability.

IMHO, the same slow down should apply to going down that applies to going up. Anything greater than 45 degrees should result in a slip and fall damage.

Edited by malibu43, 27 June 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Assiah]

Like the idea, but seriously the quickdraw is a large? The mech that is well known for its well designed ankle actuators allowing it to keep its footing on all sorts of terrain is now as graceful as a stalker!?

Please reconsider moving the Quickdraw to the medium grades and the stalker up to the huge.

[FrDrake]

Chavette, on 27 June 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Like:
Everything, except:

Don't like:
1,Alpine has great potential to be a walk ~6 minutes around mountains for a shootout as opposed to the current walk ~3 minutes for a shootout.
2, Cmon no more magic classes, we already have 1, Tonnage, 2 Weight Class, 3 Slopeslow Class? Think of the children!!! Don't turn it into ExcelSheetMemorizerWarriror, you have all the tools you need for these classes, without making new ones up.

I'm pretty sure TT nerds love playing ExcelSheetMemorizerWarrior though

[Name140704]

Great! Can we move on to balance and bug fixing now?

Great! Can we move on to balance and bug fixing now?

[Shumabot]

I genuinely approve of this change. Jump Jets just became far more valuable as tools to get around. They even made the lightest scout frame better than the heaviest, the spider got a minor buff here.

Edited by Shumabot, 27 June 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Chavette]

FrDrake, on 27 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure TT nerds love playing ExcelSheetMemorizerWarrior though

Yeah, well I don't mind if the game gets 10 fold more subsystems/aspects/caveats till launch as long as its a logical consequence of the stats already in the game. These changes simply take away from the meaning of bigger engines, tonnage classes etc.

[ManDaisy]

Assiah, on 27 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Like the idea, but seriously the quickdraw is a large? The mech that is well known for its well designed ankle actuators allowing it to keep its footing on all sorts of terrain is now as graceful as a stalker!?

Please reconsider moving the Quickdraw to the medium grades and the stalker up to the huge.

Yes there is something seriously wrong with the scaling of the quickdraw.

[Lyoto Machida]

Assiah, on 27 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Like the idea, but seriously the quickdraw is a large? The mech that is well known for its well designed ankle actuators allowing it to keep its footing on all sorts of terrain is now as graceful as a stalker!?

Please reconsider moving the Quickdraw to the medium grades and the stalker up to the huge.

These PGI guys must have something special in their hearts for the Stalker. First, they made it too small in comparison to the Catapult...now this walking up hills categorization.

Either that or the Stalker has some nude pics of them somewhere...

[Redshift2k5]

Quote

If you have trouble remembering what areas are navigable while in game, make a rhyme.
Alpine for example: "If it has rock on it - you can't walk on it; if it has snow on it - you can go on it"
Now you will never forget!

That's a terrible rhyme >:|

[FrDrake]

Chavette, on 27 June 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Yeah, well I don't mind if the game gets 10 fold more subsystems/aspects/caveats till launch as long as its a logical consequence of the stats already in the game. These changes simply take away from the meaning of bigger engines, tonnage classes etc.

Yea I agree, one of my chief complaints with their new heat implementation # of weapons scale is that they are going to have to add a new stat line to EVERY weapon with the "boat limit" stat. You can't have a complex and arbitrary boat limit like that and then not make that readily apparent in the GUI.

Lyoto Machida, on 27 June 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

These PGI guys must have something special in their hearts for the Stalker. First, they made it too small in comparison to the Catapult...now this walking up hills categorization.

Either that or the Stalker has some nude pics of them somewhere...

Then Yen-Lo had Wang envy.

[grayson marik]

I am positively surprised. The announced changes sound well thought trough. I could not find a hair in the soup yet...and I always find one... *grrr*

[Nathan Foxbane]

Rusty Shackleferd, on 27 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

I agree that there could be better division of certain mechs in slowdown scheme. I do recall that certain leg types are better at climbing slopes than others. For instance, the "man-walker" legs are suppose to be better at climbing hills. The "chicken-legs" are better for speed on flat plains. With this in mind, the cataphact should be in the same place as the catapult. In addition, the atlas and stalker would have their positions swapped. To conclude, have you ever seen a chicken run up a mountain?

No but I see quail run up a 60 degree slope in my backyard almost daily. Robins too for that matter.

[Sephlock]

Prediction: Alpine will become the realm of the immortals.

[Signal27]

malibu43, on 27 June 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Like the changes!!!!



Rolling down a hill on wheels is different than running down a hill on legs. The mechanics of walking/running are a little more complicated.

Imagine running as fast as you can on flat ground. Now imagine putting that same "effort" (ie - run as fast as you can) down a 45 degree slope. Will you run faster? Hmmm... you might get to the bottom of the hill faster, but you'll probably have screwed up a knee, ankle, broken a bone, and probably rolled a good part of way down. You'll probably have to move down that hill slower than you would on flat ground to maintain the same stability.

IMHO, the same slow down should apply to going down that applies to going up. Anything greater than 45 degrees should result in a slip and fall damage.

What this guy said. I have an elderly mother who has balance issues when walking. She actually goes SLOWER walking downhill than across an even surface. Although younger men like you or I could very well run faster down a steep hill, keep in mind it would take some more effort to remain upright.

That said, I don't agree mechs should go any slower when going downhill.

[DragonsFire]

NARCoMAN, on 27 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Great! Can we move on to balance and bug fixing now?

As has been pointed out in the Project Phoenix thread, the folks who work on the art and models don't work on the balance and bug fixes. In the same regard, the developers involved with movement and maps are not going to be doing the balance and bug fixes either.

Granted, in this case, as has been noted by a few already, this does bring some balance to a number of maps and mechs due to the increased value of lighter mechs and JJ capable chassis. The point remains though that you can't just blindly throw developers at something that they haven't been involved in actively developing.

Edited by DragonsFire, 27 June 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Suko]

I'm all for this change, but two things concern me:

I feel that the Canyon Map will need more "ramps" to allow mechs to ascend to the higher plateaus more regularly. It would kind of suck being stuck in the valley with no where to go for 200+ meters in either direction. I just feel like this reduces the tactical options available to the pilot. Also, consider that most of the mechs with the least speed and agility are also going to be the same mechs that will likely struggle to hop over these barriers.

River City: When leaving the drop port to head towards upper city, very few people use the bridge due to getting sniped way too easily. However, once you're in the river, it could be very difficult to get multiple mechs out of the river and up the hillside without adequate ramps.

Perhaps you could add some kind of mesh or structure to the bridge that would disrupt LOS a bit and block some incoming shots. That might make the bridge a bit more usable.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 27 June 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Chavette]

FrDrake, on 27 June 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Yea I agree, one of my chief complaints with their new heat implementation # of weapons scale is that they are going to have to add a new stat line to EVERY weapon with the "boat limit" stat. You can't have a complex and arbitrary boat limit like that and then not make that readily apparent in the GUI.

Exactly, you could just track the value of the total heat generated in the last 1-2 seconds and do a nice multiplication factoring in that value when generating the next weapons' heat that gets fired.
Thats it, no "minimum boat limit", no "damage penalty per weapon" or any of those numbers someone made up you have to work with. Mechs aren't exactly binary things.

It doesn't even make sense from a reality point either that 4ppc gets a penatly, but 3ppc 3LL doesn't?

Done ranting.

Other than that, I can't wait to see what this brings.

Edited by Chavette, 27 June 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[GroovYChickeN]

By in large I like everything. 2 things though.

1) a 45 degree angle isn't all that much and some mech should be able to go over this. I think that there should be a difference in where you stop depending on the mechs like the slow down.

2) Some of the maps may need to be adjusted by those maps. I have a feeling this may restrict the traffic flow a little too much at times.

Edited by GroovYChickeN, 27 June 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[ryoma]

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

[FrDrake]

ShadowVFX, on 27 June 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I'm all for this change, but two things concern me:

I feel that the Canyon Map will need more "ramps" to allow mechs to ascend to the higher platues more regularly. It would kind of suck being stuck in the valley with no where to go for 200+ meters in either direction. Also, consider that most of the mechs with the least speed and agility are also going to be the same mechs that will likely struggle to hop over these barriers.

River City: When leaving the drop port to head towards upper city, very few people use the bridge due to getting sniped way too easily. However, once you're in the river, it could be very difficult to get multiple mechs out of the river and up the hillside without adequate ramps.

I like the fact that Canyon will make you make the decision of "do I jump in the canyon to dodge all that incoming fire and then work my way back out later, or do I just try and hunker down up here on top behind this rock and hope my team can help me extract me soon".

Both of those decisions are also balanced by your decision in the mech lab of "do I take this extra medium laser or toss on some JJ in case I get stuck somewhere I don't need to be".

To me this makes for dynamic and meaningful choices, not unfun gameplay.