147 replies to this topic

[Lostdragon]

In my personal experience the Jenner has been the hardest chassis to learn for me so far but it is also the most fun. I went from Cataphracts to the Jenner and it was a tremendous change. I was doing very well with both the Muromets and 3D then I just kept getting my *** kicked in the Jenners, but I had seen others do very well in them so I knew it was me. After a few hundred matches in them I finally am doing well most of the time and it is a blast. I actually sometimes get an adrenaline rush when it comes down to the end of a match and I'm the only one left on my team against a couple of heavier mechs.

In a Cataphract or Highlander when I beat a mech I know it is just because I was able to blast him before he blasted me. Positioning is a big part of it, but that happens relatively slowly. In a Jenner when I beat anyone 1v1 I know it is because I outplayed them. It requires so much more attention and focus to do well that it feels like playing a completely different game.

[Razorfish]

There is something wrong when the scariest thing in the game is a light mech.
I know this is a video game and not the TT game. But this video game is based on the TT game. Light mechs are kept in check in the TT game because you can always see behind you and always aim at least one arm (and the weapons in that arm) behind you. That is not the case here.

[PEEFsmash]

Razorfish, on 27 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

There is something wrong when the scariest thing in the game is a light mech.
I know this is a video game and not the TT game. But this video game is based on the TT game. Light mechs are kept in check in the TT game because you can always see behind you and always aim at least one arm (and the weapons in that arm) behind you. That is not the case here.

They are only the scariest thing to you because you lack knowledge of or ability to execute basic anti-light techniques, or you have bad aim.

[Kaspirikay]

Lights are pretty easy to kill

[Razorfish]

PEEFsmash, on 27 June 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

They are only the scariest thing to you because you lack knowledge of or ability to execute basic anti-light techniques, or you have bad aim.

You know nothing about me, my knowledge, or my skill. But I can make a lot of assumptions about your intelligence based on your post.
I stand by my previous statement. Light mechs are the current “I win” button.
Being hard to hit because you have a lag shield does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because you are going fast does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because hitreg is screwed up does not make you skilled.

[Kutnarb]

Lostdragon, on 27 June 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

In my personal experience the Jenner has been the hardest chassis to learn for me so far but it is also the most fun. I went from Cataphracts to the Jenner and it was a tremendous change. I was doing very well with both the Muromets and 3D then I just kept getting my *** kicked in the Jenners, but I had seen others do very well in them so I knew it was me. After a few hundred matches in them I finally am doing well most of the time and it is a blast. I actually sometimes get an adrenaline rush when it comes down to the end of a match and I'm the only one left on my team against a couple of heavier mechs.

In a Cataphract or Highlander when I beat a mech I know it is just because I was able to blast him before he blasted me. Positioning is a big part of it, but that happens relatively slowly. In a Jenner when I beat anyone 1v1 I know it is because I outplayed them. It requires so much more attention and focus to do well that it feels like playing a completely different game.

I agree, but the point of this thread is supposed to be on how lights take damage. You should definitely be able to do very well as a light, but not by circle strafing an assault/heavy/medium like a robot.

Because people have responded so typically by saying others suck and don't play lights enough I took my spider out for a spin. Did great...somewhere around 230 dmg, took down an Awesome, tagged the entire time. All the while running in and around the enemy team...usually 4 of them present. I specifically stopped on 2 occasions to take hits.


...my armor didn't go below yellow.

[XSerjo]

Assault mech survivability too great.
Why? All chassis got double armor. That means 35 ton mechs go +119 max armor points. 100 ton mechs got +307 max armor points. But weapon and cooling sustems are the same.

For today every 40 pinpoint alpha for light mech means death or end-of-active-fighting. There're lances full of assaults and heavies whith ****-tiny amount of mediums and lights - doesn't it tell us that lighter chassis are underpowered?

And this guy whine and ask to nerf lighter mechs, meh.



P.S. Guys, did you play MWO before lagshield fix? THAT was the hell. For today lights are easiest mechs to kill (for person who know how to aim, of course).

Edited by XSerjo, 27 June 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Razorfish, on 27 June 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

You know nothing about me, my knowledge, or my skill. But I can make a lot of assumptions about your intelligence based on your post.
I stand by my previous statement. Light mechs are the current “I win” button.
Being hard to hit because you have a lag shield does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because you are going fast does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because hitreg is screwed up does not make you skilled.

It's only an I-win button if it makes you win.
Lights currently get 1-shot by almost everything on the field, even if only 1 in 10 shots register on a light due to netcode and hit registration (it's not nearly that bad) then it's still the case that an assault who can keep the light in his forward arc will kill the light long before he gets killed, so long as said assault starts off undamaged.

If you're having problems with lights learn to keep them in your forward arc, or stop letting the enemy heavies/assaults blow holes in your armor and then blaming the spider/jenner who came over to finish you off.

[CravenMadness]

Yea, I've got to say... People who whine about light mechs... Kind of low on the 'taken serious' scale of things. Personally, I love my 3L raven, and have a blast when I'm running it, but the only reason I have it is because of the ecm. Lights get blown apart, and unless you are running around counter clockwise to the enemy and capping (which gets you absolutely nothing in this current incarnation) you're chances of surviving an entire match are slim. I really enjoy my cicada X-5 which, speed tweaked, runs around 150 with a build a lot like a jenner's (4 med lasers, 2 streaks) but no jjs. It's got better armor than a light, and still has that speed that I like, and it's a blast to play and can still fill the role of 'base capper'. As for lights taking out atlai... That ****'s easy, just don't do the indian circling the wagon-train maneuver and keep boning the assault through his torso twist (or lack there-of) in the back or shoulders. Only assault I'm really afraid of one on one when I know the enemy team is far away, is an awesome and their huge *** torso twist heh.

[Kaspirikay]

Oh man I remember lagshield jenner, then lagshield 3L. Then hsr came out and suddenly less.

Edited by Kaspirikay, 27 June 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Brilig]

If shot registration gets fixed lights will feel the hurt. When knockdowns come back life as a light pilot will get a lot rougher too.

[Weztside]

If lights are made less "survivable" there will be no reason to drop in one. Its bad enough as is. One high alpha to the leg or CT and a light pilot is out of the match. Sooner rather than later someone with a big gun gets a lucky shot. Why do people want lights nerfed into irrelevance? Is it because a good light pilot can highlight all of your shortcomings when it comes to skill? Food for thought.

[Koniving]

Highest kdr I have in a light.
RAVEN RVN-3L 1.54: 36 kills 32 deaths

Second highest kdr in a light.
RAVEN RVN-4X 0.95: 132 kills 330 deaths

My lowest KDR in an assault; mind you this is only a trial assault.
ATLAS AS7-K 1.00: 6 kills 6 deaths


My second lowest kdr in an assault. This one ran trial several times. I've only had this one since May 21st. It frequently runs with an XL engine and 1 point of armor on the rear.
ATLAS AS7-RS 1.51 141 kills 75 deaths


The sad irony is I rarely use PPCs and gauss (unlike the Atlas RS there).

My overall kdr is 0.98 and that's after all the lowering done when I first got the spiders.


Trust me, there's nothing overpowered about lights. Third person view (camera commando) : Atlas D with basics only and super weak weapons versus LOTS of mediums and lights.

[PEEFsmash]

Razorfish, on 27 June 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

You know nothing about me, my knowledge, or my skill. But I can make a lot of assumptions about your intelligence based on your post.
I stand by my previous statement. Light mechs are the current “I win” button.
Being hard to hit because you have a lag shield does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because you are going fast does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because hitreg is screwed up does not make you skilled.

They are not hard to hit to good players, that's why I know you are bad. There is an absolute total of 0 top players that think light mechs are overpowered. Improve your aim and anti-light techniques. It hurts to hear, but I'm sorry.

Koniving, on 27 June 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Highest kdr I have in a light.
RAVEN RVN-3L 1.54: 36 kills 32 deaths

Second highest kdr in a light.
RAVEN RVN-4X 0.95: 132 kills 330 deaths

My lowest KDR in an assault; mind you this is only a trial assault.
ATLAS AS7-K 1.00: 6 kills 6 deaths

....your sample size on the 3L and the AS7K.....is completely insignificant.

Wait...your second highest KDR is 132 kills and 330 deaths? That is not a .95kdr....

Edited by PEEFsmash, 27 June 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[William Mountbank]

The only reason lights are 'overpowered' is because in the standard pug match the total drop looks like this: Lights:1 Mediums:0 Heavies:6 Assaults:9

A Centurion mounting a big engine, BAP, seismic, SSRMs and lasers can easily follow a Spider which is going at 151kph. The Spider has to dodge and jink to avoid fire, losing linear speed in the process, whereas the Cent can just run straight and have a stable aiming platform.
This DPS-centric Cent is pretty weak against larger mechs though, and not enough lights drop in pug matches to make it a useful enough role mech for pilots to chose.

On the other hand, it takes that same Spider 7 shots to the exposed internals of an Atlas before it goes boom. That's a minimum of 28 seconds where the Spider has to use it's speed to stay behind the Atlas, assuming every single shot the Spider takes is accurate. On the other hand, the Atlas will have an alpha that requires only one successful hit to destroy the Spider, which takes 0 seconds, since cooldown is not important for a one shot kill.

If heavy and assault pilots switched out their PPCs and gauss rifles, and dropped with lasers and SSRMs instead, they would find lights a much reduced menace. Also, that light you tried chasing into that area with lots of obstructions - he may have had some kind of plan to use it as cover...

Edited by William Mountbank, 27 June 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Kutnarb]

I have to say, that I'm really disappointed in this thread. I remember when online pc gaming was more of a gentlemen's game. I'm astonished at how immature and ignorant 70% (just plucked that number out of thin air) of the replies are here.

Did you even read the OP and the follow ups? I have to assume you can read because you can type. I'm not really sure how else I can describe the issue that spawned the post. The English language only has so many words. Wait, maybe I have to accuse someone of sucking really bad to persuade others reading this. No, that would just make me look pretty lame.

What exactly in my OP makes you believe this is a whine session? This is a forum for gameplay balance. Where else would you write a post about your observations that could perhaps make the game more balanced? And if you found the observations to be false then you could certainly share some empirical data to prove the point. But you don't. Instead you really talk yourself up while talking others down. I bet that really turns on the ladies...until they meet you.

I have been playing vs lights and getting this issue. As another example about an hour ago I was engaging a spider that was harassing the group of us. He landed from a jump jet flight while trying to change directions and was standing still for a second 113m away. I alpha'd 3ppc +2erppc to his torso and his armor state only blinked. I've also played my spider and been almost untouchable...but you would know that because you read that post in here too right? If you think that an experience player like myself and others that have commented in this thread about seeing the same thing are just terrible players then that just reinforces the impression most of us already have of you.

To all the people that left constructive comments it's been great and thanks for the info/talk. If you haven't seen this issue I'm happy for you and I commiserate with those that have. I think you can just about stick a fork in this thread, so I'll be seeing you all on the battlefield.

[William Mountbank]

Sorry, I do understand that it is frustrating to assault pilots that they have trouble hitting the smallest profile mech with their pinpoint weapons, but some of what you see is a technical issue that there is no solution for beyond making the Spider hitboxes larger than the mech itself, or reducing the max engine size, which seems to be a way of punishing players who already have to deal with a low damage output and low armour chassis.
When I get hit by an AC40, I can tell you my Spider goes to damaged internals from full armour. Everything else is a 100% miss for pinpoint weapons, surely?

Also, PC online gaming used to be a gentleman's game? I'm pretty sure I recall trolling in Doom2.

[Appogee]

Razorfish, on 27 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

There is something wrong when the scariest thing in the game is a light mech.

Oh come on. Of all the games you play, how many of them feature a Light in the top scorers?

The only time I am ''scared'' of a Light is when I didn't bring the right weapons to combat one, or got myself so far out of position as to be vulnerable to be them.

Ie if a Light kills me, it's usually* my own stupid fault.








* I guess sometimes they land the last lucky shot when I'm damaged and in melee. But I don't begrudge the little buggers a little encourage. It's not as if we see many of them around these days.

Edited by Appogee, 28 June 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

light mechs don't posess a need for tactical sense due to their impunity on all terrains and collisions. The new movement mode introduces half of that equation and should make light mechs a bit more manageable in dogfights. even the ones with jump jets.

However we really need knockdown, or at least a sort of stagger to return in order to completely re-introduce the tactical elements that must be planned around for engagements. I feel that in order for this to return the mobility update was absolutely required beforehand in order to reduce the sense of "go anywhere" and further curb willy nilly no consequence movement. I would not be surprised if we see it make its return in August or September.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 28 June 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[William Mountbank]

Battlecruiser, on 28 June 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

light mechs don't posess a need for tactical sense due to their impunity on all terrains and collisions.

I'm not sure what you mean here? Light mechs need more tactical sense than other mechs because they have to use the terrain for armour and need to choose targets and engagements much more carefully because of their lower DPS and likelihood of operating alone against multiple foes.
Plus, try dropping in a light mech and see how much impunity to collisions they have when their own team mates trample them at the beginning. I notice collisions always seem to do equal leg damage to both mechs, but the 16 armour on my Spider's legs don't hold up so well compared to the 43 on the Cataphract I've just collided with.