147 replies to this topic

[Kutnarb]

Just my thoughts spurred from lots of playing lately.

I think that light mechs are way too survivable at the moment. People will come back with the obvious, "lights are fast." Yes that is true, but there are also a ton of experienced pilots with great aim that are even used to compensating slightly for lag issues.

If you are a medium, heavy, or assault and you make a tactical error like getting in a bad position, you will pay for it dearly. Usually there is no coming back from that mistake. If you're a light though, you can make all the mistakes you want while running around in the middle of the enemy team. All the while not needing to actually pilot well because there aren't collisions anymore. The one exception is overheating/standing still. While in movement weapons seem to do less dmg to lights. PPC boats getting direct hits on light torsos and that armor spot only turning yellow, when the same shot to a heavy would totally strip the armor or worse. LRM 80 salvos with tag and only 10 missiles hit the light. SRMs seem to do nothing at all at the moment.

I like lights, but a light being able to take down an Atlas because of these issues is just wrong. If you want there to actually be roles in the team, then there needs to be consequences for light mechs. They should fear going into the fray and use their inherent mobility and or ecm to position for advantages in giving intell and support to their team. Notice how nobody uses the new artillery/airstrike capability? If lights had to be careful I bet more would use those items...which I think was the purpose for their implementation.

[Tombstoner]

I think your a little jaded and haven't spent a lot of time in a light mech.

the ability of a light mech to take down an atlas i think is a consequence of the convergence issue.. people just take too much armor off the back and pay for it when the rare light gets behind them. lights are also targeted for termination asap by good players. good players also dont chase after the rabbit.

i hear what your saying. there are some hit detection bugs, find what fun you can get from the game and enjoy it for what it is. lately when my ELO has gone to high, i hit the mach one cheese barrier. i make a new mech and the game is completely different. you may be running into people like myself who know how to play better then someone new. stay with it fun is available.

[dario03]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

If you are a medium, heavy, or assault and you make a tactical error like getting in a bad position, you will pay for it dearly. Usually there is no coming back from that mistake. If you're a light though, you can make all the mistakes you want while running around in the middle of the enemy team.

I'm going to say that the opposite is true. Lights can easily be one shotted and if you leg one its completely worthless. For anecdotal evidence heres what happened in my very first match with a ac40 catapult that just happened a few days ago. In this match I killed 2 lights and a assault. The lights were back to back within a minute of each other tops. One was a Jenner and one was a Raven both with light damage. And you might be wondering well what was the mistake that they made to get killed and that mistake was simply running into the firing path of my mech when they rounded a building. Literally that's all that happened. They were trying to use hit and run tactics on a nearby ally of mine and when they ran past him they came within 200m of my mech and were vaporized. Compare that to the assault mech that I killed. He was a lrm Stalker that stood in one spot and even though I had to cover half the map to get to him he never saw me coming. But did he die in one hit? No, after one of my nearby team mates shot him he started walking away in a straight path and I had to put 4 ac40 shots into his back before he died.

Edited by dario03, 27 June 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Foxfire]

Eh... there are different types of mistakes.

Assaults are hurt the most by making positioning mistakes.

Lights are hurt the most by making speed mistakes.

What this means that an assault against a light that messes up on position can be taken down. That is the weakness of the assault(speed).

What this also means that a light against an assault that makes a mistake and has to slow down/stop can be taken down(1-2 good alphas from hard hitting weapons will take down or cripple most lights). This is the weakness of the lights(armor).

This isn't a guarantee, though, as a good assault pilot can get themselves out of a position mistake and a good light pilot can get themselves out of a speed mistake.

[PEEFsmash]

#MakeEloPublic. If you think light mech survivability is too great, it's because you aren't playing against top players. It's as simple as that, I'm sorry.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 27 June 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Go run a Jenner through the center of a PPC+Gauss sniping team.
I don't think much will come out the other side.

Is it so wrong for lights to be able to survive? They take longer to kill enemy mechs than any other weight class due to more limited weaponry.

[Crystal Maiden]

dario03, on 27 June 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

I'm going to say that the opposite is true. Lights can easily be one shotted and if you leg one its completely worthless. For anecdotal evidence heres what happened in my very first match with a ac40 catapult that just happened a few days ago. In this match I killed 2 lights and a assault. The lights were back to back within a minute of each other tops. One was a Jenner and one was a Raven both with light damage. And you might be wondering well what was the mistake that they made to get killed and that mistake was simply running into the firing path of my mech when they rounded a building. Literally that's all that happened. They were trying to use hit and run tactics on a nearby ally of mine and when they ran past him they came within 200m of my mech and were vaporized. Compare that to the assault mech that I killed. He was a lrm Stalker that stood in one spot and even though I had to cover half the map to get to him he never saw me coming. But did he die in one hit? No, after one of my nearby team mates shot him he started walking away in a straight path and I had to put 4 ac40 shots into his back before he died.

I've underlined the relevant parts. I play only my RVN and this happens all the time, or I get hit in the side torso, or the cockpit. It all is the same result. I die. Is it my fault for getting into his fire arc? Sometimes. Other times it's just bad luck and he has good reflexes.

[Lefty Lucy]

I feel like laser HSR has stopped working effectively. I'll often get a direct hit on a light with full beam duration and do very little damage.

[Appogee]

OP is crazy. Lights die easily, you just have to hit them. And when they're running around with a half dozen enemy taking pot shots at them, sooner rather than later, some of those shots connect.

Not only that, but Lights carry barely any weapons. I run around taking pot shots in a hit and fade approach in my Jenner, for the entire match, and get slim rewards at the end. If Lights were any less survivable there would be zero reason to even try.

[Kutnarb]

Like I said in OP, these are my observations and this is not a wine session. It may not look like I'm not experienced because I don't post often, but I have been playing since open beta release. I have seen all the changes in the game since that time. I have spent time in all weight classes and chassis.

Also, I have no problem with light mechs in general. I'm not jaded lol . It seems to me that the responses in this thread are becoming reflexive "i love light mechs and just because you may suck doesn't mean they're broken." Forgive me if I'm wrong on that. The issue I raise is one of game balance and my observations on how the light chassis take dmg vs other mechs. Along the lines of what Lefty Lucy commented on. The same shots on a light vs a heavy (even if they are both standing still) seems to do more dmg to the heavy. Almost like there is a bonus armor value on the light chassis.

Maybe it is a weapon convergence issue? (Even though it looks like your weapons are converging on the light they're actually not)

Also I think part of the problem is that lights aren't rewarded enough for doing the support roles they are supposed to. But I believe that is an ongoing discussion in other threads.

Edited by Kutnarb, 27 June 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[SixBottles]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

If you're a light though, you can make all the mistakes you want while running around in the middle of the enemy team.

LOL

yeah sure, after that i'll clap my heels, saddle up my golden pony and fly it to the sun to get a nice BURN.

Edited by SixBottles, 27 June 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[FrostCollar]

What types of mechs do you play? I haven't noticed some of the issues you mention from the other side of a light's cockpit glass. Especially since "one mistake" is enough to cripple a light due to their light armor and usual use of XL engines.

Anyways, Assaults are supposed to be slow and ponderous. If they were completely effective against lights then the best counter for assaults would be assaults.

Lights don't carry much in firepower, but they're not unarmed. Of course they can take down heavier mechs. We can talk about support until the cows come home, but the idea that lights are a "noncombat" mech is quite wrong.

[Tennex]

light survivability hasn't been good in a long time

[Celtic Warrior]

From what I've encountered lately the light mechs do seem to be doing alot of damage more so then a light should be able to. They are way to fast and agile and run circles around all the other mechs to a point where not many shots are landing.

I'm not the greatest player but have been playing MW since Mechwarrior 2 and don't remember lights being this tough.

My 2 cents for what its worth

[Asakara]

So many non-light mech builds can one shot kill my 35 ton mech regardless of how fast I am going.. And it has happened many times over the last 11 months.

Yet, in a light mech I have never, in over 5,000 games, ever one shot anyone.

[KAT Ayanami]

Just because you cannot hit lights. It does not mean that the rest cant either.

They are a hassle. But they are not OP in any way.

[Kunae]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I like lights, but a light being able to take down an Atlas because of these issues is just wrong.

Well played lights are supposed to be able to take down lone assaults, who've wandered away from the herd. As a matter of fact, it's their job.

[Kutnarb]

FrostCollar, on 27 June 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

What types of mechs do you play? I haven't noticed some of the issues you mention from the other side of a light's cockpit glass. Especially since "one mistake" is enough to cripple a light due to their light armor and usual use of XL engines.

Anyways, Assaults are supposed to be slow and ponderous. If they were completely effective against lights then the best counter for assaults would be assaults.

Lights don't carry much in firepower, but they're not unarmed. Of course they can take down heavier mechs. We can talk about support until the cows come home, but the idea that lights are a "noncombat" mech is quite wrong.

I tend towards the the heavy mechs as my prefered but I have own everything...think I'm up to 19 mech bays now (you're welcome PGI).

I agree with all that you just said. I don't think lights are noncombat. My point is that slugging it out isn't what they were intended for. I don't have a problem with a light taking down an Atlas in a 1v1 situation either. What I think needs tweaking right now is the dmg model. I see this type of situation all the time where the aforementioned atlas puts, for example, an ac20, 18srm, and a couple lasers into the light and they are hardly damaged. Damage / ton seems to be off with lights. But like I said, maybe it's more of a convergence issue, or even lag (although they say they've fixed those issues). Whatever the cause, I see lights surviving things they shouldn't just about every match.

And to all those that are and will continue to respond with "you have to hit the light" just save your time and don't type it lol. I covered the base assumption that you are hitting the target in the OP.

I think the main point here is that if they didn't mess with the damage model on lights and instead gave them better rewards for doing supportive tasks it would make the game much more interesting. And that wouldn't stop the guys that want to get into the fray to rumble from doing so. It would just show off more of their skill if they survived it.

Edited by Kutnarb, 27 June 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Damage / ton seems to be off with lights.

[REDACTED]

[REDACTED] this thread should have been titled, "I'm having a hard time damaging lights. Does anyone have any advice about anti-light techniques?" Instead you say there is a balance problem. This is not a balance problem [REDACTED].

Now...I will give you an opportunity to ask me about how to deal with lights, how to damage them more consistently, no matter what mech you play, I will give you good advice. If you want that advice, I will give it to you [REDACTED]

Edited by Helmer, 27 June 2013 - 04:16 PM.
Cleaned up for Ad hominems/Condescension

[w0rm]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I like lights, but a light being able to take down an Atlas because of these issues is just wrong.

Yes whats wrong is that lights pretty much instadie when they meet my AC40 (in case the shots register; silly HSR).