100 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

John MatriX82, on 28 June 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Either gauss hell or laser hell, as it was before PPCs came to a better degree of usefulness

I find srms lacking too much punch to be even considered to be taken, even more in competitive, streaks are more effective, this until they won't fix the "always hit the CT" thing as they said.

PPCs are in a right spot now, what breaks PPCs AND LRMs are boats, 3+ ppc boats (I mean 4-5-6 ppcs), LRM 50+ boats are destroying both weapon systems and will always render their damage and balance a hell. SRMs will too (once they'll rebuff them), unless we don't take care of them using some sort of tube-limiting factor I'm posting everywhere since a few months.. but they don't listen.

You actually quite right about this. I have always said that a single LRM 15/20 on a mech is not overly powerful but when you have 4-5 mechs packing a couple hundred LRM launchers on them combined, they almost completely ruin the game. Same goes for a team with 3-4 ECMs running simultanously preventing targeting and locks. This is especially true when the LRMs and ECMs all end up on the same team.

Honestly not sure how you go about balancing this although the heat scaling might work if they are smart about it and don't break something like small/medium lasers that sometimes need to be fired in groups of 4 to be effective.

I think they should break it down into heavy, medium and small. Heavy weapons you can fire 2 simultanously without penality. This would include Gauss, AC/20, ER PPCs, PPC, LPL, LL, LRM20, LRM15, AC/10, SRM6. Medium 4 simultanously with includes ML, MPL, SRM4, LRM10, AC/5, UAC/5 and small can fire unlimited and include the rest. I think that will eliminate most boating.

[BadWolf81]

Honestly I would like to see a temporary fix of moving the heat back to what it was until PGI knows how to better fix PPC’s

[Enigmos]

Viktor Drake, on 28 June 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

I think they should break it down into heavy, medium and small. Heavy weapons you can fire 2 simultanously without penality. This would include Gauss, AC/20, ER PPCs, PPC, LPL, LL, LRM20, LRM15, AC/10, SRM6. Medium 4 simultanously with includes ML, MPL, SRM4, LRM10, AC/5, UAC/5 and small can fire unlimited and include the rest. I think that will eliminate most boating.

The system you propose might work, except what would result are AC2 boats. Have you ever checked the damage they can put out?

[Little Nemo]

John MatriX82, on 28 June 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Either gauss hell or laser hell, as it was before PPCs came to a better degree of usefulness

I find srms lacking too much punch to be even considered to be taken, even more in competitive, streaks are more effective, this until they won't fix the "always hit the CT" thing as they said.

PPCs are in a right spot now, what breaks PPCs AND LRMs are boats, 3+ ppc boats (I mean 4-5-6 ppcs), LRM 50+ boats are destroying both weapon systems and will always render their damage and balance a hell. SRMs will too (once they'll rebuff them), unless we don't take care of them using some sort of tube-limiting factor I'm posting everywhere since a few months.. but they don't listen.

Having participated in the matches last night, I disagree. The game was more fun and versatile than us just dominating the competition with PPCs.

[keith]

we need weps like the TF2 rocket launcher. very low skill to use but a wtf high skill ceiling. right now there is no weps that fill that void, the ppc and guass should be the weps that fill that. should be semi easy to hit targets that are 300m, but if u need to blast a ct of a fast scout that is 1.3k should take fair amount of skill.

[Mystere]

And once again ... Meta this. Meta that. I'm getting really sick of this "Meta" crap.

All it seems to lead to is endless cycles of nerfs and more nerfs. The cockpit shake introduced to take care of the poptart "Meta" "problem" is just the latest sample of the effects of this "Meta" crap. This "fix" managed to also kill the jumping lights by making many of the people who play them literally want to puke.

And now it's the PPCs turn to get the ire of the "Meta" crowd ...


Who else in here plays solo or in smaller groups? I'd really like to get the opinions of the (I assume) larger MWO community on this matter. Is the PPC also a problem to this group, or just to the 8-man "competitive" types and their never ending arms races?

I have played 100% solo all this time and I am not seeing the PPC (or any other weapon) as the problem. Boating might be the real issue. But then again,

• If I see a 4+ PPC boat, I hug his face.
  
• If I see a 4+ ERPPC boat, I bait him into overheating.
  
• If I see a smart a$$ who decided to mix his (ER)PPCs, I still bait him into overheating ( ).

And yes, have someone scout, scout, and scout. Don't just charge into the enemy without knowing their composition and load outs.




I say find a solution to the boating problem, assuming it is really the problem, and do so without punishing those who decide to use only one or two of the "problem" weapons (with dual-gauss and AC/40 setups excluded of course -- the people who play these can all go to Sokar ).

But if the problem is just confined to the 8-mans, then they can join Sokar too.

Edited by Mystere, 28 June 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Ph30nix]

The weapon itself isn't the problem, other game play mechanics and the players themselves are what make it a problem. Also the fact other weapons are a bit lacking for various reasons is another.

[Andrew Cranston]

keith, on 28 June 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

we need weps like the TF2 rocket launcher. very low skill to use but a wtf high skill ceiling. right now there is no weps that fill that void, the ppc and guass should be the weps that fill that. should be semi easy to hit targets that are 300m, but if u need to blast a ct of a fast scout that is 1.3k should take fair amount of skill.

Suggestions on how to do this? Only thing I can think of is travel time adjustments (gauss probably being pretty close to where it needs to be). They still need to fix the bigger boats but other than that this is exactly what we need.

[Little Nemo]

OriginalTibs, on 28 June 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

The system you propose might work, except what would result are AC2 boats. Have you ever checked the damage they can put out?

You have to stare at your target too long for my taste for AC2s to viable, but I'm glad people can have fun with them. It would be better to be pinked constantly in a pub than blasted by an energy ball every few seconds.

Ph30nix, on 28 June 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

The weapon itself isn't the problem, other game play mechanics and the players themselves are what make it a problem. Also the fact other weapons are a bit lacking for various reasons is another.

I was on the fence about it, but the weapon is indeed the problem. It's so fast you can't miss, it does good damage and the heat is manageable. There needs to be a tweak to heat I think.

[Sephlock]

What would happen is everyone would switch to Jagermechs. The PPC users would use dual gauss

[Little Nemo]

Sephlock, on 28 June 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

What would happen is everyone would switch to Jagermechs. The PPC users would use dual gauss

Which was a better game than it is right now IMO.

[Andrew Cranston]

Sephlock, on 28 June 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

What would happen is everyone would switch to Jagermechs. The PPC users would use dual gauss

At least that's only a 30 point alpha instead of the current 40-60. Also ammo, travel time, and the weapon explosions.

[Chavette]

I have to disagree. From what I've seen, you'd be way to biased towards CQ, of course you'll be happy a long ranged weapon is taken out.

[3rdworld]

Skinny Pete, on 28 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I was on the fence about it, but the weapon is indeed the problem. It's so fast you can't miss, it does good damage and the heat is manageable. There needs to be a tweak to heat I think.

What do you think about nerfing its min range? So that the weapon has no use in a brawl. Would also need a buff to SRMs to work.

[Andrew Cranston]

Chavette, on 28 June 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I have to disagree. From what I've seen, you'd be way to biased towards CQ, of course you'll be happy a long ranged weapon is taken out.

But they aren't. As someone who has played against them a fair amount, I found them to be best at medium ranges and with lots of movement. They played the game the way it should be played, with some thought and tactics. They also aren't bad at the current meta at all, they have plenty of good snipers, some of whom were great gausscat pilots back in the day. The "you just want to move back to short range" argument doesn't work against SJR.

[Little Nemo]

Chavette, on 28 June 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I have to disagree. From what I've seen, you'd be way to biased towards CQ, of course you'll be happy a long ranged weapon is taken out.

Are you talking about us? Because I'm pretty sure we have been snipe focused for a while, despite not wanting to. If you're going to make claims, back them up?

[Chavette]

Skinny Pete, on 28 June 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Are you talking about us? Because I'm pretty sure we have been snipe focused for a while, despite not wanting to. If you're going to make claims, back them up?

You just did exactly that with writing "despite not wanting to". You don't like that kind of game, its only natural you will have a more positive opinion if it was to disappear.

[Little Nemo]

Chavette, on 28 June 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

You just did exactly that with writing "despite not wanting to". You don't like that kind of game, its only natural you will have a more positive opinion if it was to disappear.

The diversity we saw lost night is what proves my point. Do you know how boring it is dropping every night and just obliterating everything with PPCs?

[East Indy]

John MatriX82, on 28 June 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

We don't need heat, we need to avoid boating 4-5-6 LLs, 4-5-6 PPCs, over 50 LRMs and over 30 SRMs.

This is the root of the problem — the PPC's popularity is just one symptom.

[hammerreborn]

Tank Boy Ken, on 28 June 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I guess we can all agree that PPCs need a slight increase in heat (+1 to +1.5), maybe coupled with a reduction in Projectile speed to 1200m/s and the cooldown increased to 5s. ER PPCs could stay as they are, their heat is still a balancing factor.

Generally Mechs need more hitpoints, the Locust/Flea need it to become more than a hilarious gimmick mech. And all other Mechs will need it to be prepped for the Clanbullshittech.

Yes to heat, no, hell no, god no to projectile speed. At 1200 m/s it matches guass meaning that 3 ppc guass mechs will no longer have to time two seperate shots and just do 45 damage to the same location.

Best solution is to beat the heat cap heavily with the nerf bat.

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 June 2013 - 08:55 AM.