81 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Missing from the original post: SRMs used to do 2.5 damage per missile before splash, then splash multiplied this and on some targets the damage varied from 9 to a PGI stated response to the thread discovering this that the high end of splash damage against a commando was of 22 damage per missile. With splash removed or fixed, even at 2.5 it will never do what they used to do here. Most of that total damage was done in the first 18 seconds or less. That stalker was completely destroyed, the arms, the side torsos, the CT, and the head, all destroyed almost simultaneously.

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But on a balance related topic that would change the current meta significantly by making one very simple change to how the heat system works.

The source of the balancing issues. The person who designed the heat system believed you should be able to use a K2 with 2 ER PPCS at 15 heat per ER PPC with 30 SHS and have 0 heat according to tabletop after firing once. What he failed to know is that weapons in Tabletop are never fired at the same time, but queued one at a time over 10 seconds. Then all heat generated and sunken in that 10 seconds is done in a very simple take heat generated for 10 seconds, subtract heat sunken across 10 seconds, this is excess heat left over out of 30 capacity. 2 ER PPCs? Fired one at a time, 5 seconds apart.

His assumption. 30 'soft' heat capacity. Fire 2 ER PPCs alpha: generate 30 heat but sink it instantly, still 0 heat. Never shutdown.

How it really works in real time: 30 heat capacity. Fire 2 ER PPCs, generate 30 heat = shutdown + 30 heat sunken over 10 seconds = 0 heat, start up.

How it really works in tabletop to real time: Tabletop fires them one at a time. 30 heat capacity. Fire 1 ER PPC, spike 15 heat, wait 5 seconds, 0 heat. Fire 2nd ER PPC, spike 15 heat, wait 5 seconds, 0 heat.

The mentality of high capacity, slow dissipation versus low capacity, slightly faster (more cannon) dissipation.

Edited by Koniving, 28 July 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

+1 from me too
Good breakdown of the problem.

Having read through the topic, i have some (hardly groundbreaking, TBH) thoughts I'd like to share on the topic of balance.

While i understand that what I'm suggesting can't be implemented in the near future and faster, simpler number-tweaking fixes are more appropriate, I still think this should be a long-term consideration:

I) Reality is balanced. (not joking, it is (kinda))

II) MW has always been more of a simulation then a straight FPS game.

III) Given the sim aspect of MW and point I), i think, the right and perhaps only stable way to balance MWO is by adding more realism. (something PGI has been more or less working on (terrain movement and JJs))

- Now to be concrete. While PPCs are really a bit too good compared to Lasers and other energy gadgets, I don't think that is the biggest problem. The problem is that in some ways MWO (a sim) is less realistic then CoD for instance. Why ?

- Hitting stuff is too easy. Weapons lack realistic properties, like drop off and much more importantly recoil.
Think about it. If you're playing an FPS and there is no shake in the crosshair and no recoil whatsoever, you easily hit.... so you pick the weapon with the most powerful shot. A sniper rifle. You don't need shotguns or SMGs or anything else. Their advantages are unnecessary because aiming is so easy.
- Now let's say aiming is a bit harder and weapons (proportional to caliber and power) have recoil. Now you can't rely on hitting every time. Now it's logical to have a backup weapon that fires fast for instance. (Like a sidearm in CoD or Med/Small Lasers here).

- IMHO, only such changes can truly balance this game. Otherwise it will just be a race form one weapon that you cram your mech full of to another.

- Lasers require quite a bit of skill to land all their damage in one place on a moving target. Other weapons (apart form SSRMs and LRMs ofc) should also require a proportional amount of skill.

- I think this is also important because if the game's skill cap is too low then it won't be interesting enough for competitive players over years to come (years !).

DISCLAIMER: Yes, this is oversimplified and would not fix all of the problems some weapons still need buffs and some nerfs. I just wanted to run a different angle on one aspect of the bigger problem.

Cheers