344 replies to this topic

[MaTriX7]

I've only been playing MWO for a couple days now and logged in quit a few hours on two mechs, plus the trial mechs.
What I've noticed is the same thing you guys are talking about. I'd say at least 75% of the time, the teams are completely lopsided. It's not uncommon to see 8:0 matches. Most I lose, some I win. Every game I play gets more pointless. So much that I've almost lost interest but did find something fun to do. Bought a jenner and run around harassing larger mechs and or trying to cap a base. UNTIL you get hit with an AC20 blast and 1 shotted, then not so fun.
No big deal, I just leave the match and fire up another mech. Usually my Catapult. Tried an LRM boat, I sucked at it. Snipers 2 shotted me every single time, or 9 Atlases pulled up completely undetected on radar and opened fire with their 200dps alpha.

Every match seems to be the same damn thing. People walk over to the same spots each map. LRM boaters set up and wait for an unsuspecting mech to unload their 200 LRMs on. Yeah, it's happened to me a couple times. Mech didn't go in reverse as fast as I wanted it to. Result was "warning, critical damage". And that was even after I ducked behind a hill.
Okay, not problem, I'll just snipe them with my twin PPCs.

I've played MW games in the past (since MW2), so I'm not new to this genre. But I think PGI is really screwing the pooch on this one. They REALLY NEED TO START LISTENING to their players. But that's the problem with *most* game devs. They want to do things *their* way or no way.

The game definitely needs a better match making system. Is it really that complicated? Are MWO devs being lazy or just not skilled enough to code those game features. Either way, it's up to them, otherwise this game is going to be nothing more than a novelty and will go the way of the dinosaur before it gets out of beta.

[Lykaon]

Ok first off I stopped reading on page two.

What I gathered was many exclusive solo players reporting on the state of the game as it concerns pugs vs premades without ever having played in a premade of 4 or 8.

So forgive me if I openly scoff at the opinions of players who only know what they precieve when playing solo.

I have played and do regularly play Solo 4 Man and 8 Man.

My solo and 4 man play is around equal parts 8 v 8 is not as easy as pressing launch like all you exclusive soloers seem to think it is so I don't get as many 8 v 8 matches in as I would like.


So here is the opinion of a player who has played solo and 4 man and 8 v 8.

Solo games are frustrating as hell for me.Even if someone takes the command seat it is a rare case to see 7 other players follow a plan.

What usually occurs is the bulk of the forces gravitate predictably towards the usual spot ie. ridgeline of frozen city or cauldera edge on caustic.One or two solos wander off and who ever has the first two kills will win.

PUG matchs are predictable and painfully so.Most players move into the same areas and fight the same fight over and over again. It's a matter of who has the two worst/unluckyest players to die first.
Bottom line that is the cause of lop sided battles.Once you are down 2 mechs from the enemy numbers it's a snowball effect.

When I play in 4 man teams I almost always see a group deployed on the opposite side.And by almost always I mean 8 or 9 out of 10 as a conservative estimate.Even with a 4 man team with comms and a plan we will not win every singel match or even 90% it's probably closer to 75-80% depending on who we have on the roster that day.

I almost never see another team on my side.And by almost never I would conservitivley estimate fewer than 1 in 30 matches will I find another team paired with my team.

This of course means that the previously mentioned 75-80% win ratio is shared mostly (almost always) with 4 pug players.
I am calling anyone out who claims they lose 90% it's not premades if this happens it's your crapariffic ELO.If the enemy was a premade then half your team was also in all probability also a premade.It is so unlikely that you will always be placed on the losing side and even more unlikely that every loss was caused by 4+4 synchro droppers.

As for 8 mans...

Did you know that you need 8 players per team to play 8 v 8? I am sure you figured this out.But have you ever thought about the logistical headache of keeping 8 players together long enough to play more than a few matches?

Let me fill you in then.It's not easy and it's not done frequently.Mostly you get upwards of three games in because 8 man team games usually take longer because all 16 players on on plan and rarely do you have an early 2 kill lead triggering the snowball effect.

So 8 v 8 doesn't generaly last long before someone leaves and you lack the required 8 players to participate.

So with fewer than 8 players but with a functioning (and paid for) teamspeak server the remaining players form smaller groups until another 8 man team can be made.

Also did you also know that 8 v 8 is not what I would call casual or low stress goofing? So even if you have 8 players on your teamspeak server it is unlikely that all 8 are up for "serious" matches.I would estimate that less than half of the players on teamspeak at any given time are interested in "serious" matches.This means 8 man teams require significant planning and easily lose momentum.

So in closing I would like to point out that arguing a case that team work in a team based game is harmful to the game is idiocy.Team play IS the game.The team that is actually a team does have an advantage and should win because of cohesive team work.I would love for intergrated voice to become a priority it may end this stupid debate once all players are in a team even if some are also in a group.

[Appogee]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

100% of my games are stomps for one side or the other. And they are pretty obviously caused by one side having at least one full 4 man stack, usually two.

This is completely correct, for solo players..

I also play in teams so I have a perspective on both.

Edited by Appogee, 29 June 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Adridos]

MechGorilla, on 28 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Then you'll be complaining that you want those tools disabled because it's not fair that these people have figured out how to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

I know it's crazy, but I think that if a game is designed in such a way that I have to use a third party program running in the background for it to be complete... then there's something really wrong.

"Sorry pal, you will have to run this keymapper if you want hotkeys in Starcraft 2... the game was designed to be played with hotkeys, so it's obviously clear you have to install some special program in order to use them."

"Did I forgot to mention? You have to download the Map Provider TM in order to have map in WoW... clearly, it's massive landscapes were designed in such a way that it's neigh impossible to play without a map... that's why it's not in the game, of course!"

[I am]

World of tanks latest patch just bumped its graphics quality notably. The guys who made war thunder are making a tank based game to rival it. Titan fall and heavy gear are coming sooner or later. The Piranha development team really needs to figure out who their target audience is, and how to hook them. They have competition coming in all directions. I for one will start playing again more regularly if the team stacking gets nixed. Allowing 4 man teams in a small community, who's only real option is 8v8 death match, isn't acceptable. I'm not holding my breath though, this has been obvious since cb ended.



Pub Farmer Online? No thank you.

[R Razor]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Your argument from anecdotal evidence: In one game where I was in a stack, we got another stack. So what? What a crappy argument.

What I'm trying to tell you is that as a solo it's obvious when you're against a stack, and it IS NOT FUN. For anyone. YOU ARE DRIVING PLAYERS AWAY. WHY IS THIS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?




There's a difference between supposition and observation. But you "supposing" that I'm mistaken is actually an assumption. Learn English.

I suspect the reason you're having a hard time and unable or unwilling to work as a team is because you're so abrasive. IIRC I played a game against you yesterday, and we stomped you, yes we were a stack, the other 4 on our team were not and we had no comms with them, but we were able to communicate amongst ourselves........huge difference. Suspect you probably end up on multiple ignore lists each time you log on based on your attitude in this thread.

Less whining, more playing............failing that, be constructive with your criticism at a minimum.

[Kaspirikay]

R Razor, on 29 June 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

I suspect the reason you're having a hard time and unable or unwilling to work as a team is because you're so abrasive. IIRC I played a game against you yesterday, and we stomped you, yes we were a stack, the other 4 on our team were not and we had no comms with them, but we were able to communicate amongst ourselves........huge difference. Suspect you probably end up on multiple ignore lists each time you log on based on your attitude in this thread. Less whining, more playing............failing that, be constructive with your criticism at a minimum.

Why were you grouped?

[R Razor]

Kaspirikay, on 29 June 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Why were you grouped?

Because I chose to be, much as when I played the original table top game back in the day, the other folks on my TEAM were right there and we were able to communicate. Like it or not, the lore of this game is steeped in TEAM WORK, not individualists, and I play it for that reason.

I've dropped PUG as often (or more) than I've ever dropped in a team environment, and I've had my *** handed to me on a platter more often than not when I do, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.............coming in here and whining because you're incapable of making friends or too lazy to figure out a way to communicate with people and coordinate your actions just makes you look foolish, lazy and ultimately DEAD if you end up playing against people that are none of the above. (this isn't directed at you or anyone else specifically, but rather against those that it applies to)

Edited by R Razor, 29 June 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[HeavyRain]

R Razor, on 29 June 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Because I chose to be, much as when I played the original table top game back in the day, the other folks on my TEAM were right there and we were able to communicate. Like it or not, the lore of this game is steeped in TEAM WORK, not individualists, and I play it for that reason.

I've dropped PUG as often (or more) than I've ever dropped in a team environment, and I've had my *** handed to me on a platter more often than not when I do, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.............coming in here and whining because yuo're incapable of making friends or too lazy to figure out a way to communicate with people and coordinate your actions just makes you look foolish, lazy and ultimately DEAD if you end up playing against people that are none of the above.

So let me describe to you the way I like to play this game. I come home from work, tired and overloaded from each day's rat race and I want to waste some time shooting at big, implausible robots instead of watching TV. So I play a couple of matches, then I check my email, then another match, then maybe call someone and chat, then go downstairs to make coffee, then another 2-3 matches etc.
CAN I JOIN YOUR VERY SOCIAL TEAM? I promise I won't breathe through my mouth and I can assure you that I am a decent player when a premade is not focus-firing me. You will just have to wait for me to read that latest article on the internets between matches or to prepare an afternoon snack.
Different people have different definitions of "playing a game" and if PGI wants to say "F*** U, solo scum, you and your money, this game is for TEAMS", then they should come out and say so.

I am almost certain PGI will not separate solo players from groups, because then people would have to face some real opposition instead of uncoordinated solo players and that would be bad for business. Not much fun being a proud member of the 43rd Tiberian Regulars of the Order of the Golden Unicorn if you keep having your *** handed to you by other groups.
Solo players are here to provide entertainment for groups, who are bound to spend the most money on this game.

[R Razor]

HeavyRain, on 29 June 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

So let me describe to you the way I like to play this game. I come home from work, tired and overloaded from each day's rat race and I want to waste some time shooting at big, implausible robots instead of watching TV. So I play a couple of matches, then I check my email, then another match, then maybe call someone and chat, then go downstairs to make coffee, then another 2-3 matches etc. CAN I JOIN YOUR VERY SOCIAL TEAM? I promise I won't breathe through my mouth and I can assure you that I am a decent player when a premade is not focus-firing me. You will just have to wait for me to read that latest article on the internets between matches or to prepare an afternoon snack. Different people have different definitions of "playing a game" and if PGI wants to say "F*** U, solo scum, you and your money, this game is for TEAMS", then they should come out and say so. I am almost certain PGI will not separate solo players from groups, because then people would have to face some real opposition instead of uncoordinated solo players and that would be bad for business. Not much fun being a proud member of the 43rd Tiberian Regulars of the Order of the Golden Unicorn if you keep having your *** handed to you by other groups. Solo players are here to provide entertainment for groups, who are bound to spend the most money on this game.

If that's how you CHOOSE to play then good on you, enjoy it. The beauty of this game is that you do NOT have to play as a team if you don't want to. I choose to do both depending on the amount of time I have.

If you choose to team up with people that have the attention span o.............oh look a squirrel..............well, who's at fault for that, PGI or you?

I knew what I was looking for in a game when I started playing this, I found it, I'm satisfied, not my problem if you (or others) aren't. Plenty of other games out there right?

[HeavyRain]

So instead of typing all that analysis about teamwork and being social before you could have just said "Works for me, kthxbi."

[The Cheese]

The thing no one really seems to address with this issue is that it really doesn't matter whether you just got rolled by a pair of sync dropping 4-mans or a collection of randoms. The fallout is the same.

People have a tendency to focus on the worst of events, so even if you play 10 games in a session and only 2 of them are complete and utter one sided stompings, those are the games that stick with you. Get a few weeks worth of that under your belt and all of a sudden, it feels like every other match is totally one sided and you never stood a chance and it's the matchmaker's fault for pairing you against obvious high ELO premades with voice comms. I've been there. Every few matches, you see four players with the same faction tag or four founders on a team, and your confirmation bias tells you that those people are a premade.

I repeat: It doesn't matter whether any of what I just typed is the actual situation or not. One sided matches where you feel like you stood no chance from the get-go are unfun, regardless of the cause. Devs gotta figure out how to address it.

Edited by The Cheese, 29 June 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[R Razor]

Could have, but the simple truth is, the entire canon the game is based upon revolves around SMALL UNIT TACTICS and not individual combat.

I was asked why I chose to join a team, I provided a detailed answer. Fortunately I'm intelligent and articulate enough that I can do so without resorting to common "internet slang" such as "kthxbai" and so on.

[R Razor]

The Cheese, on 29 June 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

The thing no one really seems to address with this issue is that it really doesn't matter whether you just got rolled by a pair of sync dropping 4-mans or a collection of randoms. The fallout is the same. People have a tendency to focus on the worst of events, so even if you play 10 games in a session and only 2 of them are complete and utter one sided stompings, those are the games that stick with you. Get a few weeks worth of that under your belt and all of a sudden, it feels like every other match is totally one sided and you never stood a chance and it's the matchmaker's fault for pairing you against obvious high ELO premades with voice comms. I've been there. I repeat: It doesn't matter whether any of what I just typed is the actual situation or not. One sided matches where you feel like you stood no chance from the get-go are unfun, regardless of the cause. Devs gotta figure out how to address it.

Referencing the other thread ongoing regarding balancing the weapons and so forth, getting rid of "boats" would go a LONG way towards that goal. I submitted my thoughts (as gleaned from a conversation the TEAM I was playing on had during a recent match) in that thread.

When every game you play is guaranteed to have at least 1 or 2 AC-40 Jags and some PPC Boat Stalkers you're going to end up getting "rolfstomped" more frequently than you might were those combinations an impossibility.

[Adridos]

R Razor, on 29 June 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Could have, but the simple truth is, the entire canon the game is based upon revolves around SMALL UNIT TACTICS and not individual combat.

Yeah, but those guys have millitary grade coms or at least transmitters. Plus, they train and work together... know each other.

How are we supposed to fight like a team when we get stuck with a group from all corners of the damned IS and the only way we can communicate with each other is by writing small notes on paper by hand and then sending the picture of said note onto each other's neurohelmet HUDs?

Have you ever tried to write while bein shaken by AC fire and trying to steer away from the edge of the canyon you are almost assuredly going to fall into once that angry Locust charges you with full force while fighting the controls to even stay upright? Neither did I because it is pointless and will result in my doom. And Even if I somehow managed to get that message off, my supposed lancemates are also fighting for their whole lives... how many of them do you think will notice the miniscule message when some dastardly Crab is preparing to decapacitate them?

[The Cheese]

Adridos, on 29 June 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Have you ever tried to write while bein shaken by AC fire and trying to steer away from the edge of the canyon you are almost assuredly going to fall into once that angry Locust charges you with full force while fighting the controls to even stay upright? Neither did I because it is pointless and will result in my doom. And Even if I somehow managed to get that message off, my supposed lancemates are also fighting for their whole lives... how many of them do you think will notice the miniscule message when some dastardly Crab is preparing to decapacitate them?

In that scenario, I would probably just call hax on the other team and quit indignantly.

[R Razor]

Adridos, on 29 June 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Yeah, but those guys have millitary grade coms or at least transmitters. Plus, they train and work together... know each other.

How are we supposed to fight like a team when we get stuck with a group from all corners of the damned IS and the only way we can communicate with each other is by writing small notes on paper by hand and then sending the picture of said note onto each other's neurohelmet HUDs?

Have you ever tried to write while bein shaken by AC fire and trying to steer away from the edge of the canyon you are almost assuredly going to fall into once that angry Locust charges you with full force while fighting the controls to even stay upright? Neither did I because it is pointless and will result in my doom. And Even if I somehow managed to get that message off, my supposed lancemates are also fighting for their whole lives... how many of them do you think will notice the miniscule message when some dastardly Crab is preparing to decapacitate them?

I hear you, but at the same time I'd hardly qualify Teamspeak and a set of headphones with a mic "Military Grade" communications. I'd also submit that finding a team you can work with is a trial and error process, I only know 1 other person personally in this game, and that's because he's my neighbor and we work together out here and I introduced him to the game.........everyone else in the 5th RCT (the group I drop with on Teamspeak) are strangers that I've met through this game. I'd also add that they (and I'm sure there are others like them out there) are extremely helpful when it comes to learning the ins and outs of this game. New player or old salt, finding a group of folks that are willing to share information and work together does nothing but improve the overall game experience.

[Jestun]

No.

The matchmaker can't manage balance with the current 8 man or 1-4 man queues. If it is further limited by all the solo players queueing for solo only then the matchmaker will have to find the right sized groups to form a team with less or no single players to include.

They are already planning on splitting by region, splitting by 3rd person vs. 1st person and once CW comes in the playerpool will be further divided. Splitting it again because a few people are unhappy that their enemies displayed teamwork in a team game would be foolish in the extreme.

The better suggestion would be to get VOIP ingame so that pugs can communicate better.

[The Cheese]

R Razor, on 29 June 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I hear you, but at the same time I'd hardly qualify Teamspeak and a set of headphones with a mic "Military Grade" communications.

I think he was just staying in character. In any case, "millitary grade" is more likely to refer to the communications being sent than the actual hardware used to send it.

[Sheraf]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

It can't continue. Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous. You have to make a solo queue. Whether it's smaller numbers or whatever doesn't matter. Tired of losing 10,15,20 games in a row with the team stackers giving us a nice "gg lol ez" afterwards is enough to make me quit.

If you lost alot like that, I don't think in all those matches there is a 8 man team on the other side. I think the problem is the way you play. I pug all the time, and have no problem like you said. I do have some lose streak, but that come down to my mistake during the game.