344 replies to this topic

[Jestun]

Sheraf, on 29 June 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

If you lost alot like that, I don't think in all those matches there is a 8 man team on the other side. I think the problem is the way you play. I pug all the time, and have no problem like you said. I do have some lose streak, but that come down to my mistake during the game.

It's easier to blame something else than look at what you did wrong.

THEY WORKED TOGETHER! IT'S NOT FAIR! I ONLY WANT TO PLAY WITH LONE WOLVES! WE NEED SOLO MODE!!

Edited by Jestun, 29 June 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Any one who can't handle themselves in solo play is a scrub.

[Modo44]

Obviously as soon as the game chat is included, the communication advantage will disappear. We all know that random groups of people communicate just as well as established teams. [/sarcasm]

[Adridos]

R Razor, on 29 June 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I hear you, but at the same time I'd hardly qualify Teamspeak and a set of headphones with a mic "Military Grade" communications. I'd also submit that finding a team you can work with is a trial and error process, I only know 1 other person personally in this game, and that's because he's my neighbor and we work together out here and I introduced him to the game.........everyone else in the 5th RCT (the group I drop with on Teamspeak) are strangers that I've met through this game. I'd also add that they (and I'm sure there are others like them out there) are extremely helpful when it comes to learning the ins and outs of this game. New player or old salt, finding a group of folks that are willing to share information and work together does nothing but improve the overall game experience.

I was just complaining about the comparison of a lance from Battletech and one from MW:O.

Personally, I wouldn't have problems finding people, or speaking to them, playing in a team, but I simply swore to myself during the CB when 8 man teams were always matched against puggers, that unless something is done to make it fair for the poor puggers (I mean, c'mon, a lot of them don't even know how to play the game, let alone have a chance when facing opponents who can effectively coordinate their actions, while they can't), I'll stay as one of them... at least until CW gets in place and said pugging could actually harm my faction.

Both of these conditions are, sadly, still unfulfilled and as such, I'm staying solo and hopefully making it clear that something must be done. An integrated VoiP is simply a must in a team based game... no way around it.

The Cheese, on 29 June 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

I think he was just staying in character. In any case, "millitary grade" is more likely to refer to the communications being sent than the actual hardware used to send it.

Yep, it's dramatized version of: "They can effectively communicate and we can't." Sorry for the confusion.

Modo44, on 29 June 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Obviously as soon as the game chat is included, the communication advantage will disappear. We all know that random groups of people communicate just as well as established teams. [/sarcasm]

Yes, but at least those of us with higher morals won't feel bad about rolling over them, since that way, it's their own fault they're not using something that is provided to them, not like now when even if they wanted, they are completely and utterly screwed.

Edited by Adridos, 29 June 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Ghogiel]

It's 2013, in game voip should've been in MWO a long time ago just because it's a team game.

[jper4]

Lugh, on 28 June 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

No you'll die alone on the enemy teams base mostly....mostly.

untrue- cause that would require someone to actually RTB to stop the cap. and the great majority of the time that doesn't happen.

had a match yesterday in frozen- saw the base capture message. i was about 1/3 of the way to gamma from epsi backing a jager, but knowing i was the fastest mech on the team (only a bj-1x so not really super speedy) i turned and ran back- going by everyone else standing still while still lobbing lrms over the dropship to the guys on the other side. at about 75% someone in a cat i think finally decided "hey maybe this cap thing should be stopped." and started heading over. got close enough to fire one shot (and see an awesome and jager waiting at the base) before the timer ran out.

not to mention a lot of games where i RTB and get light swarmed and we lose to cap anyway cause i'd be the only one going back. now granted i did snoopy dances in the matches where other people actually came back with me/ahead of me/behind me depending on speed and did have a handful of actual last second base saves. but that was maybe about 10% of the time (other people coming back not successful saves).

then the same people who didn;t come back start complaining about cap losses...

as far as the premades i guess i'm starting to reach the bottom of the 4man Elo area (w/l almost exactly 1.0) because i've been seeing more 2-4 mans the past couple weeks. when they're on the other team they tend to win. on my side not so much. i'll try to stop dragging them down in the future <nods> but i do still get as many 8-4+ matches as i do stomps.

[The Cheese]

Ghogiel, on 29 June 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

It's 2013, in game voip should've been in MWO a long time ago just because it's a team game.

A million times, this. Team games just have in-game voip now. It's not even a question. It's just there. For MWO to be without it is ludicrous.

[SweetWarmIce]

There's nothing special about dropping in a premade all it provides is coordination. If you get a bunch of switched on PUGs who can focus fire, help each other and just have common sense. It'll be a great match.

[R Razor]

Teamspeak is free if you're with one of several factions.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Waking One, on 28 June 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Screw people who want to play with games amirite. Also it pretty much never puts two premades vs one group of pugs, just happens that a ton of premades are also terrible at the game.

It really depends at what time you are playing the game. If you're playing at 14:00 GMT+0 you'll have a lot of pugs vs. 1 or 2 premades simply because there are not enough European players online to prevent this. Past 21:00 GMT0 things change drastically because that's when the prime time for American players starts (and at least 80% of the players live in the US).

Quote

It's 2013, in game voip should've been in MWO a long time ago just because it's a team game.

Absolutely this.

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 29 June 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[Bosie]

I'd love to know where it tells you that the other team is made up of two four mans, whereas your team is seven solo players plus you. I know when I play there is nothing that tells me what the lances are made up of. This is all in your head.

[Modo44]

When you see the same camo and/or faction on 3+ enemy mechs, it is pretty obvious. From personal experience, 4 mechs in the yellow/green Jade Falcon look are rather hard to miss.

[Tarrasque]

I dunno, I've been pugging since I had to step away from my merc corps in December, and I've not noticed any real decline in my W/L or other relevant stats...

[8CH Trooper]

I pug exclusively, I am an average player and my ELO is low so I play with/against a lot of newer less experienced players. I have been taking screen shots after every game I play win or lose for the last 3 months, although this is not an entirely accurate way of seeing how many premades out there as there is no way of knowing there has been a pre made unless I play with/against them more than once. I play for a couple of hours almost every nite. In the last week I played against 2-4 man premades both of them were a mix of assaults and heavies, my team lost all 4 games, 2 against one pre made were blow outs 8-1 and 8-0, the other was 8-4 and 8-3, with both pre mades getting the bulk of the kills and damage. One 3 man pre made both times on my side, all were lites, 2 ravens with ecm and one jenner, won both games 8-4 and 8-3 with the pre mades getting the bulk of damage. 2 2 man pre mades, one on my side one against, both were lites commandos. Lost one and won one, the loss was 8-6 and 8-4, the pre made was not a real factor in the loss, the win 8-5 and 8-4 the pre made in the win was some what of a factor. As much as would like to blame premades for all of my losses the fact is a single experienced player simply can not over come the handicap of 4 inexperienced players in trail mechs or newly purchased mechs that have not yet been upgraded. I have always said "don't hate the players, hate the game". The way PGI has this game set up now is not new player friendly, hopefully they will get this sorted out before MWO turns into a ghost town.

[Otto Cannon]

It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be before the 4 man restriction. Funny how so many more people were fine with forming 8 man groups easily when they were just farming with no chance of defeat.

Anyway, I think it'd be nice to have your drop options as not only assault or conquest but another option in addition to game mode for when you drop solo:

> Fill team gaps
> PUG only
> Any

The default could be 'any' allowing you to be used as normal filling any match, with the option of choosing 'pug only' for those who hate playing with and against premades or 'fill team gaps' for people who get frustrated by uncoordinated pugs.

[HansBlix WMD]

I think something that was mentioned briefly in this thread, then forgotten, is that there are two main factors at work in the "typical premade stomp" you are hearing about from me and the other soloers who have chimed in here.

1. Communication for movement and focus targeting

2. Overpowered mech builds

No one wants to do away with 1. People who agree with me simply want there to be an equal chance for soloers to try to lead a team and get some semblance of cohesiveness on the same level as the opponents. Hitting B and clicking four times is a lot more work than pressing your push to talk key and talking to your mates. I think we can all agree on that.

On 2, people who team stack and stomp public matchmaking soloers also tend to be (gasp) better players. Now you might say ELO should take care of this, but it really doesn't. They are not only communicating, but they are also tryhard, acanonical soulless imps who run hexappc stalkers, AC40 jagerbombs and the like. Before you whip out "blame the meta, not the meta-abuser," take a hike. You are abusing the meta to score extra points. Go back to PPC ***** island.

Communication alone is a great advantage, but the ability to 1 or 2 shot most mechs on top of that is what really tips the scales.

Both problems need to be fixed, or we can continue to watch the community die a slow death. What groups grow in numbers by cutting their new members to death with machetes? Because that's what this is really about. Sure veteran players can be expected to find an outfit and get points 1 and 2 working for them. But first impressions, or the first week(s) impressions determine whether people stay or go, whether they buy Project Phoenix or not, and I think this thread alone makes it obvious what's going on here.

Noobs get slaughtered and leave without buying anything.

Edited by HansBlix WMD, 29 June 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Damascas]

I am sorry, but does anyone else find the idea that people are complaining that teamwork is OP is hilarious? I too used to be a PUG, then I decided to join a group and am enjoying myself more since I can sit here and talk to people, make new friends, and do a bit better in the game overall. I sometimes still solo queue and lose a bit more there but overall in a team game I would say maybe try to find a team. There are 5 main factions with teamspeak servers plus a bunch of merc groups.

[Ghogiel]

HansBlix WMD, on 29 June 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I think something that was mentioned briefly in this thread, then forgotten, is that there are two main factors at work in the "typical premade stomp" you are hearing about from me and the other soloers who have chimed in here.

1. Communication for movement and focus targeting

2. Overpowered mech builds

No one wants to do away with 1. People who agree with me simply want there to be an equal chance for soloers to try to lead a team and get some semblance of cohesiveness on the same level as the opponents. Hitting B and clicking four times is a lot more work than pressing your push to talk key and talking to your mates. I think we can all agree on that.

On 2, people who team stack and stomp public matchmaking soloers also tend to be (gasp) better players. Now you might say ELO should take care of this, but it really doesn't. They are not only communicating, but they are also tryhard, acanonical soulless imps who run hexappc stalkers, AC40 jagerbombs and the like. Before you whip out "blame the meta, not the meta-abuser," take a hike. You are abusing the meta to score extra points. Go back to PPC ***** island.

Communication alone is a great advantage, but the ability to 1 or 2 shot most mechs on top of that is what really tips the scales.

Both problems need to be fixed, or we can continue to watch the community die a slow death. What groups grow in numbers by cutting their new members to death with machetes? Because that's what this is really about. Sure veteran players can be expected to find an outfit and get points 1 and 2 working for them. But first impressions, or the first week(s) impressions determine whether people stay or go, whether they buy Project Phoenix or not, and I think this thread alone makes it obvious what's going on here.

Noobs get slaughtered and leave without buying anything.

Well if the number of players keeps growing as PGI says they are then the game isn't dieing. So everything about point 2... hot air.

No one is abusing the meta lol.

[HansBlix WMD]

Ghogiel, on 29 June 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Well if the number of players keeps growing as PGI says they are then the game isn't dieing. So everything about point 2... hot air.

No one is abusing the meta lol.

Take a walk down noob storytime lane with me. You choose (oh the horror) to play a medium mech. You are in river city. You look around - it's dark. Pretty lights, pretty water. Looks like my team is headed forward, I'll just open my throttle and -

BOOM

Your side torso front is internal red. You have no idea what just happened. (I'll tell you - one or more 4xER PPC trolls just blind shot the known spawn location).

BOOM

Your mech just lost a torso and the attendant arm. You still don't really know what's going on.

BOOM

Your mech is dead. You didn't even take a step.

This happens on river city on a regular basis. This is ridiculous. This turns away new players. Hell it turns away not-new players who aren't amoral basement dwelling buttfaces.

It's just hot air though. Enjoy repeating that to yourself when MWO goes under.

[R Razor]

HansBlix WMD, on 29 June 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Take a walk down noob storytime lane with me. You choose (oh the horror) to play a medium mech. You are in river city. You look around - it's dark. Pretty lights, pretty water. Looks like my team is headed forward, I'll just open my throttle and - BOOM Your side torso front is internal red. You have no idea what just happened. (I'll tell you - one or more 4xER PPC trolls just blind shot the known spawn location). BOOM Your mech just lost a torso and the attendant arm. You still don't really know what's going on. BOOM Your mech is dead. You didn't even take a step. This happens on river city on a regular basis. This is ridiculous. This turns away new players. Hell it turns away not-new players who aren't amoral basement dwelling buttfaces. It's just hot air though. Enjoy repeating that to yourself when MWO goes under.

I actually laughed out loud at that example..........because unless you are sitting there for at least a minute or longer and NOT MOVING FROM YOUR SPAWN POINT that isn't going to happen.

You should probably stick to Mine Craft or something equally less challenging, it sounds like anything that requires interaction isn't going to be for you.

I do, for what it's worth, agree with you about the whole boating thing, but that's a totally different thread.