160 replies to this topic

[Fabe]

Kunae, on 30 June 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Actually it does. But somehow the magic PGI-fairies know to make it a blue "blip".

So the only way for the tracking system that keeps track of our mechs on the mini-map to tell the seismic sensor that the seismic contact its picking up in the exact same spot that the mini-map tracking systeam already knows is a friendly mech is magic? OK fine,its magic.

[Jman5]

CutterWolf, on 30 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

"Everyone" here is missing the one most important factor about the Seismic Sensor. And that is, it some how can "like magic" tell friend from foe. I would love to hear from the dev's or even a player that can tell me "how does or can that work at all?" In fact I dare them. There is no way in hell a seismic sensor can or could do that. Plus, your seismic sensor would also go off anytime "anyone" around you moved, friend or foe. Now lets say your moving too, just how is that seismic sensor going to weed out your seismic signature from anything else moving?? Again it can't. So here is some food for thought, this "magic" it uses to tell friend from foe must be some kind of signal right? If so then could we not draw a reasonable conclusion that ECM could then jam that info?

Think about it, a friendly Atlas and a enemy Atlas with the same load-outs both at 100 tons, how does the seismic sensor tell who is who?? The only answer is "magic"

This is the argument you take to PGI to have it removed from the game, this is Mechwarrior not World of Warcraft..........

When you have an earthquake, it sends out a P Wave and S wave. The two waves move at different speed, and the lag between the two allows you to calculate distance. Triangulation allows you to then calculate the exact location. As far as differentiating between friend and foe, it would be a simple matter of ignoring all seismic activity from friendly tags. You could also ignore seismic activity every time you put your mech foot down. These sorts of calculations could be accomplished with a 4 ounce cell phone, so I think a 100 ton mech could handle it.

Look ultimately this doesn't really matter because it's science fiction. The answer is Space Magic. There are much more implausible things in the battle tech universe than equipping a mech with a futuristic seismograph.

The only thing that matters is fun and balance. Seismic, as it stands now, fails both requirements. Any other reason is fluff.

Edited by Jman5, 30 June 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[Deathlike]

Fabe, on 30 June 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

So the only way for the tracking system that keeps track of our mechs on the mini-map to tell the seismic sensor that the seismic contact its picking up in the exact same spot that the mini-map tracking systeam already knows is a friendly mech is magic? OK fine,its magic.

I've seen the blue and I think I've also seen green blip

Either way, it's "magic".

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Kunae, on 30 June 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Actually it does. But somehow the magic PGI-fairies know to make it a blue "blip".

Take this scenario:

You have a friendly mech in position A because friendly mechs transmit their positions with each other

Your seismic sensor now picks up two contacts, one in position A and one in position B.

Your nav computer already knows that a friendly mech is in position A so by deduction, the mech in position B is an enemy mech.

Therefore, the seismic sensor tells your nav computer to place a red dot on the map over position B.

However it is a valid point that a seismic sensor attached to your mech would not be able to hear mechs 400 meters away over the sound of your own stompy robot. It would make more sense as a deployable consumable.

[Fabe]

Narcisoldier, on 30 June 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Take this scenario:

You have a friendly mech in position A because friendly mechs transmit their positions with each other

Your seismic sensor now picks up two contacts, one in position A and one in position B.

Your nav computer already knows that a friendly mech is in position A so by deduction, the mech in position B is an enemy mech.

Therefore, the seismic sensor tells your nav computer to place a red dot on the map over position B.

Yup pretty much what I was trying to say.no magic involved

Quote

However it is a valid point that a seismic sensor attached to your mech would not be able to hear mechs 400 meters away over the sound of your own stompy robot. It would make more sense as a deployable consumable.

I can agree with that,a consumable that is dropped in place and picks up seismic activity for maybe a limited amount of time might be a bit better then a on board sensor package.

[CutterWolf]

Jman5, on 30 June 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

When you have an earthquake, it sends out a P Wave and S wave. The two waves move at different speed, and the lag between the two allows you to calculate distance. Triangulation allows you to then calculate the exact location. As far as differentiating between friend and foe, it would be a simple matter of ignoring all seismic activity from friendly tags. You could also ignore seismic activity every time you put your mech foot down. These sorts of calculations could be accomplished with a 4 ounce cell phone, so I think a 100 ton mech could handle it.

Look ultimately this doesn't really matter because it's science fiction. The answer is Space Magic. There are much more implausible things in the battle tech universe than equipping a mech with a futuristic seismograph.

The only thing that matters is fun and balance. Seismic, as it stands now, fails both requirements. Any other reason is fluff.

Nice try, however your moving mechs feet do not stay in contact with the ground for the duration it would take to get a reading thus, "its magic" Plus the fact it would not be able to rule out all the other seismic noise coming from all your friendly mechs moving around you.

Edited by CutterWolf, 30 June 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I find seismic useful, but I carry BAP on every mech with advanced sensors. I pick up tunnel sneaks before them make the halfway point usually with it.

[Jonny Taco]

Jman5, on 30 June 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

When you have an earthquake, it sends out a P Wave and S wave. The two waves move at different speed, and the lag between the two allows you to calculate distance. Triangulation allows you to then calculate the exact location. As far as differentiating between friend and foe, it would be a simple matter of ignoring all seismic activity from friendly tags. You could also ignore seismic activity every time you put your mech foot down. These sorts of calculations could be accomplished with a 4 ounce cell phone, so I think a 100 ton mech could handle it.

This is a great post, p and s waves are super relevant to gameplay balance.

Edited by lartfor, 30 June 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[FupDup]

lartfor, on 30 June 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

This is a great, p and s waves are super relevant to gameplay balance.

P waves are OP. S waves are UP.

[Livewyr]

Funny thing.. I used local sensors (seismic style) before seismic was released.
I Put on my headset, turned off my music, and listened.
I could hear mechs in the cave from outside of it!

Now we have seismic, and using one's brain is no longer needed.

[FupDup]

Livewyr, on 30 June 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Funny thing.. I used local sensors (seismic style) before seismic was released.
I Put on my headset, turned off my music, and listened.
I could hear mechs in the cave from outside of it!

Now we have seismic, and using one's brain is no longer needed.

I even came up with the nickname of "Information Welfare" for Seismic because it pretty much does the work for you.

[Jonny Taco]

FupDup, on 30 June 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I even came up with the nickname of "Information Welfare" for Seismic because it pretty much does the work for you.

In all honestly, as far as humor goes, this is actually a great post. You got quite a few laughs out of me tonight.

[Thuzel]

jeffsw6, on 30 June 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Inventing that sensor Most of what they've done since October exemplifies PGI's total inability to understand how the game is played.

FTFY

[xenoglyph]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Been using it for a few weeks. Advanced and absolutely ruining people.

It really need to be removed completely. Just take it the hell out.

/thread

[jeffsw6]

Narcisoldier, on 30 June 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

PGI could release a "shock absorbing leg attachment" that would cut the range of seismic sensors in half. SOmething like this perhaps?

Now I know why FupDup has the 6MG Spider in his sig. When it reads posts like yours, the spider has extra palms for its face.

Jman5, on 30 June 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

When you have an earthquake, it sends out a P Wave and S wave. The two waves move at different speed, and the lag between the two allows you to calculate distance. Triangulation allows you to then calculate the exact location.

Well, now that it's been properly explained by a geologist ... it's still over-powered!

[xenoglyph]

the 6mg Spider is in his sig because it's the stuff of NIGHTMARES.

[LordDante]

make it for lights only ! and cut the range 100/200m

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 30 June 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I even came up with the nickname of "Information Welfare" for Seismic because it pretty much does the work for you.

Unfortunately this welfare still costs 7.5k to buy in and 17.5k for all its perks... thus separating the newbies from the veterans.

[Vodrin Thales]

Viktor Drake, on 30 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Well I finally get why many people think seismic sensors are a bit over the top.

I was on the Frozen City Map and half our team decided to sweep through ice caves to flank the enemy to the far left while the rest of our team when the traditional route over the downed dropship.

Well just as we were exiting the caves we walked into the "fishbowl". The entire enemy team was just sitting there lined up in a pretty line shoulder to shoulder and the slaughter begain. I was the first out and got time to fire one alpha that half missed before being disintegrated, the rest of my lance soon followed (total of about 30 seconds to take out 4 of us.)

Then they just turned around and all walked the other way to roll the rest of our team. Honestly I think the entire match lasted less than 3 mins.

Obviously someone picked us up on Seismic and with unusual coordination, the enemy managed to capitalize on it but for the first time I realized just how much tactical flexibility is lost because of the use of seismic sensors.

On the other hand, if someone in my lance had had seismic, we would have noticed the enemy waiting for us and not walked into that total and completely ambush so in some ways I guess it offers a more realistic battlefield with lots of unaccounted pitfalls for the unwary.

So what do you all think. OPed or more realistic?

Definitely OP, and your lance is at a massive disadvantage not running it. Really though they just need to cut the range to 100m/250m (unbuffed/buffed) and it will be fine. Still useful, but not essential as it is now.

[juxstapo]

neh, I'd make seismic work perfectly for assaults, and practically not at all for lights.