160 replies to this topic

[soarra]

jeffsw6, on 30 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah but if your opponents have Seismic they are doing the same thing!


The day Seismic Sensor came out I bought 4 of them. Then I grinded more cash to get more. They are on all my main mechs, even Stalkers, which only have 2 module slots. Yeah I could swap them between mechs, and sometimes I do since I have 40+ mechs and don't have 40 sensor modules. My point is, the ******* thing is so over-powered, I have spent over 30M CB on them.

the rest of the modules suck unless your using lrms or ssrms. even if seismic only worked while standing still and half the range they are better than the other crap.

[Darvaza]

Viktor Drake, on 30 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

On the other hand, if someone in my lance had had seismic, we would have noticed the enemy waiting for us and not walked into that total and completely ambush so in some ways I guess it offers a more realistic battlefield with lots of unaccounted pitfalls for the unwary.

So what do you all think. OPed or more realistic?

save up and get one... it is well worth it. It is only over powered if you cannot have one. Since everyone can get one... all is fair.

[Lootee]

Holy crap yes it's OP. After a 6 month break I tried a few games and that seismic was the very first thing I decided I needed to have.

Just finished the grind to 7500gxp and 6mil to buy the thing and it's such a huge advantage. Even on a Jenner, it's the shiznit. No more turning a corner to find the whole enemy team there. You can see the enemy climbing around over you on tourmaline and in the tunnel on forest.

It just saved my skin on River City. There was a furball in upper city and I blew up a Stalker, and was about to leave the area, but then a HBK hiding behind a building showed up on seismic. Without that module I probably would have ran off to regroup and ate an AC/20 to the back.

Seismic is required equipment at this point. I only have the basic 200m version, I can only imagine how broken the 400m one is.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 30 June 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Escef]

jeffsw6, on 30 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah but if your opponents have Seismic they are doing the same thing!

So? It can work the other way. If two mediums notice a blip around the corner, think they can take it, and run face first into me in my 733C and the first thing I do is wreck one of them, suddenly their confidence just got them killed. The sensor tells how many are around the corner, not what they are.

[Jman5]

I try to avoid hyperbole when it comes to balance, but fully upgraded Seismic is ridiculously overpowered. As if mediums and lights weren't struggling enough already, it has severely gimped them. Ironically, the mechs which need the least help, stationary sniper platforms, are best able to avoid detection. The best you can hope for is to put yourself on an even playing field so you at least know that he knows you're coming. If you don't use advanced Seismic, you are at a huge disadvantage. Several attack paths have been made virtually inaccessible because they are within 400 meters of common staging points. You don't even have to scout that well on several maps because you'll just pick up anything inbound on seismic.

The funny thing is that in the same patch, PGI released the UAV which is a wonderful example of how to do a scouting module right. It's powerful, but not some passive system, so you have to consciously figure out when and where to place it. It also runs out eventually, can be shot down, and must be repurchased giving it just the right amount of drawback.

My suggestion for Seismic is to base detection on Chassis Type and Throttle:

• Light: Detected above 90% throttle
  
• Medium: Detected above 80% throttle
  
• Heavy: Detected above 70% throttle
  
• Assault: Detected above 60% throttle

You can set throttle by percentage using the num-keys so it's pretty easy to gauge whether you're detectable or not. With this set up, it allows player to sneak past defenses at a slower but undetectable pace giving your counterplay some downside. This also prevents mechs from triggering seismic every time they shuffle their feet slightly

Another good suggestion I read elsewhere is to reduce the seismic ping rate to make it more difficult to judge the direction they are moving. Right now, there is practically no delay between pings.

Edited by Jman5, 30 June 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Deathlike]

If I'm projecting the route that PGI took with ECM, Seismic will have very few nerfs in the foreseeable future.

[RG Notch]

jeffsw6, on 30 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yeah but if your opponents have Seismic they are doing the same thing!


The day Seismic Sensor came out I bought 4 of them. Then I grinded more cash to get more. They are on all my main mechs, even Stalkers, which only have 2 module slots. Yeah I could swap them between mechs, and sometimes I do since I have 40+ mechs and don't have 40 sensor modules. My point is, the ******* thing is so over-powered, I have spent over 30M CB on them.

Well that's working as intended then . They need to get rid of some folks C bills. So they make expensive OP module for a month or two let people burn GXP, c bills and real cash to convert XP and then they nerf it to uselessness. I mean that's a bit of twisted logic but who knows how they think. They never tell us.

[SixBottles]

operator0, on 30 June 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

What's even more shocking (or disappointing) is that decent players still haven't equipped it on their mechs. The OP had a whole lance that wasn't equipped. That's pretty sad. Seismic is better than PPCs and you must...MUST...equip it if you want to win.

well if i MUST equip it, it is not OP. its ******* ueber-OP.

Darvaza, on 30 June 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

save up and get one... it is well worth it. It is only over powered if you cannot have one. Since everyone can get one... all is fair.

best logic ever... since everyone can play as a poptart ppc boat its not op? so why the poptart nerf? why people complain about boating? EVERYONE can boat...
if we add an one-click-deathray, it wouldnt be OP, since you know? everyone could use it...


i would remove it entirely or nerf it hard... like 100m or only working if standing still (so it would be a defensive module)

Edited by SixBottles, 30 June 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Jman5]

Darvaza, on 30 June 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

save up and get one... it is well worth it. It is only over powered if you cannot have one. Since everyone can get one... all is fair.

Even if everyone had it, things would be uneven. It disproportionally hurts striker mechs (fast, hit and run mechs) who rely on surprise for their offensive power. Seismic is useful for every mech, but hurts certain mechs/playstyles more than others. The longer it stays as is, the more this game will gravitate toward Artillery Exchanging mechs.

Edited by Jman5, 30 June 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[jeffsw6]

Jman5, on 30 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I try to avoid hyperbole when it comes to balance, but fully upgraded Seismic is ridiculously overpowered.

Come, Jman5, I will teach you about 48-point bold type, excessive use of exclamation marks, and comparing MW:O to starving African people.

Speaking of starving, we should just round up the PGI balance people, lock them in their office for a week, make them play nothing but stock mechs in PUG matches, and don't feed the ones who can't scratch out a 1:1 win/loss ratio.

Now that's hyperbole. Sometimes, a little of that is useful to illustrate a point.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Been leveling up my 2X and 4X ravens, they suck. They are terrible.

But throw in Seismic and it just ruins it entirely.

I own it, but I hate it with a passion.

[Augustus Martelus II]

Dracol, on 30 June 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Just like ECM, when seismic came out how I approached the game changed.

I always assume an enemy has seismic when I plan my attack pattern unless they have shown they do not.

When running faster mechs, I never engage an enemy until the long range assets have them engaged.

Any mech I run either needs a long range weapon, or I running close support for assualts.

With seismic on the field I need to stay conscious of not being overly aggressive.

Cave/tunnel I avoid until mid game.

Does seismic make old tactics futile? Yes

Did it ruin the game for me? Not at all. Changes like these keep the game fresh for me.

true!

[Deathlike]

jeffsw6, on 30 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Come, Jman5, I will teach you about 48-point bold type, excessive use of exclamation marks, and comparing MW:O to starving African people.

Speaking of starving, we should just round up the PGI balance people, lock them in their office for a week, make them play nothing but stock mechs in PUG matches, and don't feed the ones who can't scratch out a 1:1 win/loss ratio.

Now that's hyperbole. Sometimes, a little of that is useful to illustrate a point.

Personally, they need to create a Solaris type battlefield and fight to the death. The victor will eat bitesized versions of the opponent's mech (the Stalker would be more filling than the Spider) and see the game rebalanced from the results due to hunger or the sweetness of victory.

Post Edit:
This also means, I'd be putting Paul+Garth in a Spider-5K, and give most of the PGI personnel that I like Stalkers/Highlanders/Atlai and the rest in the a Hunchback.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 June 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Augustus Martelus II]

What people would do with radar? active and passive, you would still see the enemy at 200 m.

Had always play MW with radar stuff and Sismic just gave me back this old feeling of radars, that you could see all the enemies even the ones who are hiding (except for the ones shutdown)

So it didnt change the way i play and find this module ok. I see a little bit less double ac20 mechs.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

PGI could release a "shock absorbing leg attachment" that would cut the range of seismic sensors in half. SOmething like this perhaps?

[CutterWolf]

"Everyone" here is missing the one most important factor about the Seismic Sensor. And that is, it some how can "like magic" tell friend from foe. I would love to hear from the dev's or even a player that can tell me "how does or can that work at all?" In fact I dare them. There is no way in hell a seismic sensor can or could do that. Plus, your seismic sensor would also go off anytime "anyone" around you moved, friend or foe. Now lets say your moving too, just how is that seismic sensor going to weed out your seismic signature from anything else moving?? Again it can't. So here is some food for thought, this "magic" it uses to tell friend from foe must be some kind of signal right? If so then could we not draw a reasonable conclusion that ECM could then jam that info?

Think about it, a friendly Atlas and a enemy Atlas with the same load-outs both at 100 tons, how does the seismic sensor tell who is who?? The only answer is "magic"

This is the argument you take to PGI to have it removed from the game, this is Mechwarrior not World of Warcraft..........

[superteds]

more time between bloops.

bloop
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bloop

[Fabe]

CutterWolf, on 30 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

"Everyone" here is missing the one most important factor about the Seismic Sensor. And that is, it some how can "like magic" tell friend from foe. I would love to hear from the dev's or even a player that can tell me "how does or can that work at all?" In fact I dare them. There is no way in hell a seismic sensor can or could do that. Plus, your seismic sensor would also go off anytime "anyone" around you moved, friend or foe. Now lets say your moving too, just how is that seismic sensor going to weed out your seismic signature from anything else moving?? Again it can't. So here is some food for thought, this "magic" it uses to tell friend from foe must be some kind of signal right? If so then could we not draw a reasonable conclusion that ECM could then jam that info?

Think about it, a friendly Atlas and a enemy Atlas with the same load-outs both at 100 tons, how does the seismic sensor tell who is who?? The only answer is "magic"

This is the argument you take to PGI to have it removed from the game, this is Mechwarrior not World of Warcraft..........

I just assumed since you already always knows where you teammates are on the mini-map that this system shares its information with the seismic sensor so it doesn't put a seismic contact dot in the same spot as a friendly mech triangle.

[Kunae]

Fabe, on 30 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I just assumed since you already always knows where you teammates are on the mini-map that this system shares its information with the seismic sensor so it doesn't put a seismic contact dot in the same spot as a friendly mech triangle.

Actually it does. But somehow the magic PGI-fairies know to make it a blue "blip".

[Stoicblitzer]

you just realized this? wow