117 replies to this topic

[Ralgas]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Or perhaps I can see past my own self righteous nose and see trends in gaming development, F2P betas, and dubious package deal models.

It has lead to ruin or the game being patch by who grabs the latest deal to counter the broken content. F2P in general has been a terrible death wish for most games. TF2 pulls it off because most of their money comes from cosmetics. To gossy up your avatar. Why would you do that in a F2P game?

BECAUSE THE CORE GAME IS FUN. COMPLETE. CONTENT IS CONSTANT AND FULFILLING!

What we have is a beta that is well well well behind schedule and shifting their positions all the time on issues we made very clear long ago. When we funded them with Founders. Believe it or not I love MWO. I hope to Christ it becomes the game they promised. I however also know when it is time to cut off the money junkie. To let them prioritize what is important. Content and fulfilling their commitments?

Or pushing more and more resources into the next big grab deal. Ignoring massive game bugs and imbalances in place of a new $45 mech.

For the blind: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RUh4SQoGGz

The problem with this is noone else is around to fund it, apparently not mainstream enough. Took pgi 2 years to get a backer, and then igp doesn't seem to be doing them many favors. Who are they going to turn to?

Microsoft already made their money selling of the rights, and they'd probably want it as an xbox title 1st. same with SOE and the PS. Surprised Activison didn't get on board but then they gave up on it at some point long ago too. Who's left? EA? you really want their model of money grabbing every 6-12 months for extra content?

You compared them to TF2, a valve title they didn't need to make money on after the successes of half life and portal. The last thing these guys were known for is part of duke forever, and a few NFS titles before that. If the games going to survive we have to keep it there...............

The fixes are slow but the pattern of smart decisions is getting much better, along with content that would have had legal tearing it's hair out and very nervous for a good while while they covered their *****.

[GrimNitemare]

MWO is FAR from being in the position of getting any more of my money. There is just not enough content, I have too many issues with some game mechanics. While MWO is very promising they really need to add a lot more to expect people to pay the kind of money they are asking for. We cant even salvage mechs we conquered on the battlefield, its a shell of a possibly good game.

[Josef Nader]

ryoma, on 30 June 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

1. Standard variants. Who actually pays MC for those?
2. Awful hard point selection for the medium and light Phoenix Variants. They are not hero mechs because they do not have exclusive hard points.
3. You can pick what you buy for MC
4. You can ACTUALLY buy a hero mech of those chassis eventually.
5. The Locust is a piece of garbage
6. The point of a pre-order is to give the buyer more value per dollar in order to get money RIGHT THEN. So the 20-40$ packs just barely breaking even is not actually fulfilling that.

1) Almost no-one, except when you're dealing with getting them 3 months early
2) Says you. You're bitching because the mediums and lights aren't going to be competition worthy. Boo hoo? I wasn't aware that the Death's Knell or the Yen Lo Wang were currently considered ultra-competitive. No where in the pitch for hero mechs does it state that "the mech is promised to be competitive and is guaranteed to keep up with the current meta or your money back!" You are paying for a platform for grinding C-Bills (and in this case, loyalty points). Nothing else.
3) Sure you can. You can't pick what's on sale super cheap this week. If you'd be happier passing up on the super-affordable sale because nothing on sale holds value for you, that's your decision as a consumer. It's not the sales fault for not being good enough. The sale has plenty of value, it's just not valuable for anything you consider to be important enough to throw down money on. This is your choice. You just need to understand that the sale isn't appealing to you and that they aren't going to alter the sale to try to sell to your sensibilities specifically. The sale is selling like hotcakes to other crowds.
4) Sure, if you're willing to wait a year.
5) I'll beg to differ, especially once speed caps get lifted and we get the objectives outside of "shoot the robots" the developers are talking about in all the Ask The Devs thread. You're viewing these mechs through a very short-sighted perspective.
6) The $20-$40 packs are anything but "barely breaking even". They're offering you nearly 50% off of sticker price. I'm confused by your argument here.

Edited by Josef Nader, 30 June 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[Ari Dian]

They should add more packs. Like they did on PoE. They have a nice deal, Ruler of Wraeclast Pack. 12.500$. And there are player who bought this.
Ok, you can design your own Monster with this. But PGI could do the same . Design your own mech .
And there are even quite a lot who bought the 1.250$ one.

Really. Some of you seem to dont get it. Money is relativ. For some these 80$ is nothing, for some its a fortune. And for some even 12k $ is not more as pocketmoney and are up to spend this much for a game they like.
Let everyone decide by themself if its worth for each person. If you dont want it or if you dont think its worth, dont buy it. But dont try to tell other player what to do or not.


Ask yourself the question if you have fun with the game or not. And if this is worth anything for you. Because if you have fun and think you will play it for a while, you should support it by spending money to it.
If you dont have fun you should ask yourself why you play something that you dont like .



And after all, no matter what other problems are there, the itemshop from MWO is fair and good. It is still not P2W (even if some might think it is). I have seen much worse F2P games.

[AlexEss]

GrimNitemare, on 30 June 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

MWO is FAR from being in the position of getting any more of my money. There is just not enough content, I have too many issues with some game mechanics. While MWO is very promising they really need to add a lot more to expect people to pay the kind of money they are asking for. We cant even salvage mechs we conquered on the battlefield, its a shell of a possibly good game.

A: you greatly underestimates peoples desire for instant gratification. People are buying this like hotcakes. Wether it is due to some twisted sense of idealism or because they know them self good enought to know that will spend this money any way is irrelevant in the end. Compared to most other hobbies it is still a fairly cheap one.

B:Last i checked we got a C-Bill bonus for downed mechs... But i guess you want "loot". That might come. It is under evaluation.

Any way i respect your stance on the subject. I personally think you are flogging your self for no good reason but each to their own i guess. Personally i will get this pack, just as i got the founders pack for the custom mechs. It is in my mind a good deal, especially as my last trip to the cinema run me more then 40$ and the movie i saw was Man of Steel... I think i will get a lot more entertainment out of the mech pack then i did that movie.

[Josef Nader]

Ari gets it. Project Phoenix mechs aren't supposed to appeal to the current game state. They are stock loadout mechs pulled straight from canon that were good in tabletop. If you don't think you can make the mechs fun in the game 4 months from now, don't buy them. If you think you'll have fun with them, by all means snap them up. Don't sit there and claim that they aren't a fantastic deal, because they are.

Edited by Josef Nader, 30 June 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[PanzerMagier]

Because I'm a consumer brainwashed fool who believes I should support companies who make bad games.

We should all look to EA arts as our herald and saviour.

[AlexEss]

Magier... that is good that you have come to terms with your own situation, fortunatly PGI does not make a bad game.

I can agree that they were a bit to keen to listen the the old BT vet community in the design phase (many of the core people was after all BT vet's them self) and set some unrealistic goals. But while it might not conform to your vison of what a BT game should be (or a MW game for that matter) calling it a bad game i a bit strong.

Also without EA the market for games would be a lot smaller as they are a very good publisher.

[ryoma]

How would a Locust ever become better than a Spider, Jenner, or Commando?

Speed? At the very least Commandos and Spiders will run at similar speeds
MASC? Maybe, but the Flea will have it too and Fleas have more laser hard points and are thus more viable as light mechs. If anything bigger than those two get MASC then these two chassis will be invalidated anyway.

Also did you ever realize these Phoenix mechs are not actual hero mechs? They are like founders mechs, as in people can buy them without the phoenix bonuses.

Yes the phoenix packs are barely breaking even. The 20$ pack only has Locusts which are only worth the C-bills you can sell them for. So 2 mech bays and I think a medal and forum badge. The month of premium is a promotion for one month, so any Phoenix packs sold after July 25th wont have premium time unless its a 60$+ one.

40$ pack has the C-bills from selling locusts, 2 empty mech bays, 1 really crap medium who happens to be un-deleteable, and two mystery Shadow Hawks. Also some medallion thing. All of this one month early! Yeah you're better off just waiting the month.

[Otto Cannon]

Doesn't matter- had mechs.

[AlexEss]

Well for me it is all about the custom medium, and that i can not get from any other place then this pack. If i could i would buy it elsewhere. But alas i can not.

As for the Locust vs Flea... Well we honestly do not know if the Flea will be out at all. It might have been a red herring, especially as the Locust share so much of it's design with it.

But i guess you are right, if you are not after the specific phoenix versions in the pack better value can be found elsewhere

[That Guy]

reading Huge's posts:


that is all.

[Elizander]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Let me cue you in on a little history lesson. About a year ago MWO was just an idea. A concept. A project that BT fans adored and PGI was willing to give a go. Love was in the air and all was well. They even offered a "Founder's Program" from fans to fund the game and get it on its feet. The Gold level was literally an option to toss money at PGI to make MWO a great game. The difference between the $60 buy in and the $120 Gold was disproportionate. As in you were basically just giving them cash because you loved the idea so much.

What happened in the after math?

Delays.
Slow and broken content.
The utter absence of content promised a year ago, such as CW.
Lies. Lies such as no 3PV. But hey, it was there position at the time. So they may have meant well.
A hastily and completely doomed to tank attempt to "launch the game" in an Alpha stage.

A buck load of good all that 6 million pledge money did. Do you know why? Partily to do with PGI and their own inexperience but that we can partly forgive. What we cannot forgive, will not forgive, or should ever forget is this.

The Founder's money went outside of MWO. It went to two separate projects being developed by IGP the cold hand on the shoulder of PGI. They spirited away untold hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of dollars away from MWO to fund other games. How much exactly?

Well we'll never know because PGI has a gag order over their mouths like 6 layers of bondage gag strapping but the estimate is much more then any BT fan would be comfortable with.

The Phoenix package is a terrible grab deal in and off itself. No MC. No option to SELECT the mech you want. Just all and all a bad value for your buck compared to the founders. The only other reason I could see for picking it up is the idea you're "supporting MWO".

Nu uh scrooby dweeb.

You're funding IGP. You're funding Mech Warrior Tactitcs and padding the CEO's vacation allowance. The fact is they have never been and will never be transparent with how much they have to dedicate to other sources. In that fact we must answer in kind. Do not throw money at this deal because it is not furthering MWO. It is only reinforcing the idea us players will pay for anything in MWO and IGP and by extension PGI can drag their feet and offer exclusive mechs every couple of mouths for insane amounts of dosh. When they should be making a game worth spending that money on in the first place.

Vote with your wallets mech warriors. For the good of MWO do not allow them to continue this disgusting and shady means of profiting. In the long run it will only means disaster for the game we love so dearly.

For the sight impaired or those who are simply too lazy to read: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mtK29QkS3N

I don't feel as bad as most people appear to be when it comes to how the game is coming along. That and Battlemaster.

[Josef Nader]

Did some rough number crunching, and for light mechs the engine cap is 1.4x their base engine rating. The Jenner caps out at ~340 engine, which gives it a TT movement speed of 10/15, or 162 kph in game. The Spider caps out at around a 340 as well, which gives it an 11/17 move in Tabletop, or 183 in-game. The Locust caps out at a 225, which matches the Spider at an 11/17. (All number crunching comes from here and here). So, the Locust and the Spider will match each other for raw speed. The spider will jump. The Locust is likely to be more agile, or have some other factor that puts it apart. The Locust and the Spider are comparable though. The Flea is left in the dust at just over an 8/12 base, getting up to a 16 with MASC. In other words, it's running speed will be 129kph tops, with bursts up to 172. Still outstripped handily by the Locust and the Spider. However, it has significantly better hardpoints than both of those mechs.

Oh, and ryoma, I greatly prefer stock hardpoint mechs with a nice skin and metagaming boosters on it. I really, really wish that hero mechs were just stock mechs with nice paintjobs and metagame boosting bonuses. It really, really bugs me that there are "exclusive" variants you can't get without money. It's not that they're too powerful, it's the principle of the thing. It just agitates me.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

In the end everybody has to decide for himself. Me, myself and I play TT for years and i baught the pack allready. Like the Idea that the four PP mechs will never ever....i repeat...NEVER EVER!!!! come back again in sale after this sale is done. So pls call me Overlord

[Arete]

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread. But I gladly bought the phoenix pack, simply because this game (with all it's shortcomings) is still the most fun game to play at the moment. And to be frank, that's all I care about.

[StonedVet]

The big issue I have is with the amount of money I have sank into this game I have yet to receive a Key to play MWT ... kinda ****** me off lol

[Karazyr]

Well someone does not know how the world works, as the publisher IGP can do whatever they want, its not some big moral injustice they want to make money, so they took the money YOU GAVE TO THEM and spent it on more profitable things.

does it suck yes
is it illegal or immoral no

let me put it this way, if you dont support mwo say bye bye to any big battletech game, because lets face it battletech is dying in the video game scene, no one gives a **** about it, but if mwo blows up and becomes big that could revolutionise battletech.

[Dexion]

Sure, its digital goods... But compared to my other hobbies its so cheep i literally don't even notice spending money on it.

I spend $20-40 on bullets (it varies depending on caliber, number of rounds used, and availability) every time i shoot in a match (once or twice a month). A single magazine runs $39.99 if i need to replace one for whatever reason (usually dew to loss, they are rather durable). This does not include practice ammo. I'm not even going to get into what the other equipment costs (mostly because I don't want to admit it to my self lol)

Another example: I just bought new arrows.... 12 of them.... For $120. (Granted these should last about 2 years if I'm careful), and a new Bow Site for $40... And A new String for $20.... You get the idea. I'm sure a few people are screaming at there PC "You're a flipping *****!"... While others are saying "Whoa, I wanna Party with this guy, he knows how to have fun!"

Edit: Basically, what I'm trying to say, If its something people think they will get enjoyment out of (like my snazzy new Black/Red custom arrows for me), then its worth the money "To Them". If you enjoy playing MWO, and you are fairly sure you will be playing it 6 months from now, then it makes a whole lot of sense to buy the $80 package (when you consider the amount of playtime you will put into mastering 3 of the 4 classes of mech).

[Xeno Phalcon]

My biggest issue with digital goods and online only games is eventually they will go away, games I bought a decade ago or more were still providing me nostalgia until it became exceedingly difficult to get them to work on Windows (version 2.FU). Some games linger longer (Everquest O.O so freaking old.) but I don't imagine MWO having that kind of staying power unless it evolves into something massive like Planet Side. ("Hey guys im taking a dropship to Twycross a Elemental premade is farming infantry there , anyone wanna help?")

That being said, remember what the turtle in kung-fu panda done did said:

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."









(Of course today is a lump of coal and you don't get your present till October.)