54 replies to this topic

[Dude42]

IR God, on 30 June 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

i rather the PPC/Guass because at least that way you have to aim and hit me while i am running at 150kph, if you hit me then fine nice shot but Lock on LRM's are just Noob like. LRM's wouldnt be so bad if they drop the damage on them.

But i game with 3 other lights we all run cap assist and if needs be we will just end matches early with some speedy caps

Purple Cappers!

I call ********. No way a single LRM ever hit you at 150 kph.

[Tigerwolf]

Hmm, reading this makes me want to play my LRM boat, so off I go.

[Novakaine]

Dude42, on 30 June 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

I call ********. No way a single LRM ever hit you at 150 kph.

Hehe wanna bet I've caught plenty lights flat out in the open.
Granted I had them tagged all the way and a bit of focus.
What joy.
At least until that dang raven ganks me in the back.

[Khell DarkWolf]

Stop running in straight lines away and towards LRM boats.

I can't believe you just compared them to be Long range streaks

[Dude42]

Novakaine, on 30 June 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Hehe wanna bet I've caught plenty lights flat out in the open.
Granted I had them tagged all the way and a bit of focus.
What joy.
At least until that dang raven ganks me in the back.

Unless they're running mostly towards or away from me, I have no such luck, even with TAG. But when I play lights dodging missiles is a cakewalk. you either have to be oblivious that they're coming(hard when it warns you) or you basically have to try to catch them.

[Ningyo]

I was actually wondering how effective LRMs were vs Lights so for a few games a week or so ago I tried to find a light fighting another light and pour missiles on them (got 3 games 2 with a light at theta in frozen city, 1 with a light in water on forest colony.)

On average it took about 950 missiles to kill a light going 130+ kph (couldn't tell exact speed.) This is assuming you are between 400-600m above that it should take even more. Also note that this was WITH another light on my team fighting them, so it is entirely possible to take over 2000 missiles for a kill. So yes lights going 150kph+ are essentially invulnerable to LRMs unless they are really dumb and overheat while missiles are incoming.

[Deathlike]

Ningyo, on 30 June 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

I was actually wondering how effective LRMs were vs Lights so for a few games a week or so ago I tried to find a light fighting another light and pour missiles on them (got 3 games 2 with a light at theta in frozen city, 1 with a light in water on forest colony.)

On average it took about 950 missiles to kill a light going 130+ kph (couldn't tell exact speed.) This is assuming you are between 400-600m above that it should take even more. Also note that this was WITH another light on my team fighting them, so it is entirely possible to take over 2000 missiles for a kill. So yes lights going 150kph+ are essentially invulnerable to LRMs unless they are really dumb and overheat while missiles are incoming.

So, it kinda begs the question... why does ECM block LRM locks if you can't even do concentrated damage on them anyways? Only Atlai get screwed because... they are Atlai.

[Dude42]

Deathlike, on 30 June 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

So, it kinda begs the question... why does ECM block LRM locks if you can't even do concentrated damage on them anyways? Only Atlai get screwed because... they are Atlai.

Atlai do make the absolute best missile sponges. But its because it's just a huge target, with a bigass CT hitbox. 2nd best is Awesome, then Highlanders, at eating missiles to the face and dieing, imo.

[Novakaine]

Rocket Rocketeers Unite!

[Thuzel]

Dude42, on 30 June 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Only in the lower ELO games...

Once you get out of the kiddie pool, you'll find that everyone is carrying 4PPCs+Gauss, and you'll wish they were shooting missiles at you.

SO.... MUCH.... TRUTH....

God I long for that sweet sweet BB missile warning. Instead of just a quick crackle followed by the summary screen...

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

LRMs are in a pretty nice place right now, but they still have issues.

1 - They need to have their tracking fixed like the upcoming SSRM fix (pick a bone and track that, with the bones being situated far enough from the joints that they won't all hit the torso).

2 - They need to have their damage bumped up a little bit to compensate for the loss of CT-focused damage output (which should pretty much disappear once 1 happens).

3 - Electronics need to be regularized to add bonuses and impose penalties rather than a strange mix of hard counters. This is unlikely to happen, and not really necessary, but it'd really go a long way toward fixing some of the systemic issues that MWO has faced over the past six months. Having this change go through would be a signal that PGI is ready to start using soft counters instead of hard ones (hard counters being toxic to good game play).

[Rasako]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 30 June 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

LRMs are in a pretty nice place right now, but they still have issues.

1 - They need to have their tracking fixed like the upcoming SSRM fix (pick a bone and track that, with the bones being situated far enough from the joints that they won't all hit the torso).

2 - They need to have their damage bumped up a little bit to compensate for the loss of CT-focused damage output (which should pretty much disappear once 1 happens).

3 - Electronics need to be regularized to add bonuses and impose penalties rather than a strange mix of hard counters. This is unlikely to happen, and not really necessary, but it'd really go a long way toward fixing some of the systemic issues that MWO has faced over the past six months. Having this change go through would be a signal that PGI is ready to start using soft counters instead of hard ones (hard counters being toxic to good game play).

oh look! someone who makes sense and isn't **** talking the OP with blatantly faulty nonarguments

[The Cheese]

The deepest seated problem with LRMs and the reason they are so hard to balance is not how much damage they do, but the way they do it. That being, they go right for the core. Always. Even more so when you have the accuracy boosters equipped.

They need to be forced to spread out and then have their tracking abilities improved. The weaving flight pattern alone is not consistent enough as a damage spreader.

I put this in a thread the other day:

Quote

Make each missile track to a specific part of the target using the same mechanic as Streak SRMs. Give them a weighting system so they damage different parts the target in a controllable way (controllable by the devs, not the players). Even allow the weighting system to cause some to miss, if flavour demands it.

Then, change the function of the accuracy boosters (TAG, NARC and Artemis) to affect the weighting factor on the targeting system (Example: unboosted LRMs might have a weighting of .2 to hit the CT, .4 for ST, .5 for extremities and .2 for misses. TAG would increase the weighting to .3 to CT, .5 for ST, and .6 for extremities, while reducing the weighting for misses to .1.

The idea here is to never allow every missile to intentionally home in on the core, even with all the boosters stacked.

The single biggest advantage of using a system like this is that it gives the devs a LOT more control and predictability when it comes to tweaks, as it makes the results of using the weapon more consistent. The current system is way too inconsistent in it's results to predict how a tweak will affect the game. Once the results are consistent, you can effectively tweak the base stats to get the weapon to where you want it to be.

Edited by The Cheese, 30 June 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[Dude42]

Rasako, on 30 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

oh look! someone who makes sense and isn't **** talking the OP with blatantly faulty nonarguments

To be fair, the entire OP was blatantly faulty.

Edited by Dude42, 30 June 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[PanzerMagier]

I've always hated lrms for cheesiness or uselessness. I use them myself now, they're fine. Please complain about something more unbalanced like quad ppc stalkers, OP, or are you playing one and afraid of the incoming nerf?

[MischiefSC]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 30 June 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

LRMs are in a pretty nice place right now, but they still have issues.

1 - They need to have their tracking fixed like the upcoming SSRM fix (pick a bone and track that, with the bones being situated far enough from the joints that they won't all hit the torso).

2 - They need to have their damage bumped up a little bit to compensate for the loss of CT-focused damage output (which should pretty much disappear once 1 happens).

3 - Electronics need to be regularized to add bonuses and impose penalties rather than a strange mix of hard counters. This is unlikely to happen, and not really necessary, but it'd really go a long way toward fixing some of the systemic issues that MWO has faced over the past six months. Having this change go through would be a signal that PGI is ready to start using soft counters instead of hard ones (hard counters being toxic to good game play).

All good points, I would just say that instead of buffing damage of individual LRMs just make them cluster a bit tighter and turn a bit better to increase hits per volley. A damage buff is subject to magnification by volume. Better to tighten hit percentage. This leaves the AMS/armor/scaling with boating alone but still compensates for the spread of damage. It'll give more damage but spread it better over the target.

[Revorn]

OP is getting hitt by LRMs, while running in a 150 Kp/h Raven? He is trolling, isnt he?

[El Bandito]

d rocKK, on 30 June 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

LRM's have gotten to the point of just being stupid. Any ******* moron can sit back and launch missles, and regardless of how many ams ammo packs you have its not enough. The ammo amounts need to be cut back per pack and limited to how many you can have. The damage amount inflicted by missle boats is enough to drop the most armored assault mech on the battlefield before it can back up. This game is turning into a camp fest with nothing but a bunch of LRM boats. FIX THIS ********!!!!!

Classic low Elo rant.

[El Bandito]

IR God, on 30 June 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

i rather the PPC/Guass because at least that way you have to aim and hit me while i am running at 150kph, if you hit me then fine nice shot but Lock on LRM's are just Noob like. LRM's wouldnt be so bad if they drop the damage on them. But i game with 3 other lights we all run cap assist and if needs be we will just end matches early with some speedy caps Purple Cappers!

60 ALRMs deal only 1% damage at most to mechs moving at 150 KPH even with clear LoS and using TAG. If your 150 kph mech is having problems against LRMs then you are either total noob or a BIG LIAR.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 June 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Skyfaller]

Q:What makes LRM boats effective?
A: Enemy mech drivers ignorant of cover.