22 replies to this topic

[TimonPumba-PRIME]

Hello!!! New guy here and still enjoying my cadet bonus....
Now saving up Cbills and thinking of buying a Stalker 5S and planning for it to have a build like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4abfb4fa782a4bd
It's basically an LRM boat, MLs for close quarters + equipments to help me with missile rains.
I would like to ask for feedbacks and suggestions for futher improvements...

I also made a second one (will switch to this from time to time) for some variety:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a0bb496243390fc
PPCs for sniping, srms/ssrms for close range and 2 AMS. Goodbye, "INCOMING MISSILE"?
Will try my best not to overheat.
Again, feedbacks and suggestions for improvements will be much appreciated..
(I dont want to waste money, since the builds are almost 20,000,000 Cbills)

Advance thanks, and see you on the battlefield
P.S. Is this the right section to post this???

Edited by calcuLUST, 01 July 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

I have some niggles with your proposed build - but they may be an individual preference.

• You have put LRM15s in slots with small numbers of tubes (10 and 6) - this means your missiles will not fire in one salvo, but several smaller ones. This might make you missiles more prone to AMS. A STK-3H is a better missile boat - but you might want a different chassis altogether for LRM boating.
  
• Talking about AMS, the 5S unique selling point is dual AMS slots, and yet you have used only one. I might suggest installing a second AMS if you can.
  
• You ammo distribution is OK - but you have not used the cockpit slot, which is usually a good bet for ammo. I would take the ammo out of the side torso and put it in the CT.
  
• Two medium lasers for close defense is absolutely no deterrent. You will get swarmed by lights and, as a slow, poor torso twist, no-armed assault 'Mech - you will go down quickly and easily without very good team coordination.
  
• I would really not recommend an XL engine in a Stalker. The side torsos are huge targets and you cannot move quick enough to protect them.
  
• I prefer slightly better cooling capacity, but that's personal preference.

I hope that gives you food for thought. See you soon.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 01 July 2013 - 12:49 AM.

[TimonPumba-PRIME]

I just noticed that the second build had no SSRM ammo... LOL!!!
I had it fixed now..

I chose XL engine because of the less tonnage but with same power/speed of its STD counterpart.
I think I'll just stick with my team then. (I sometimes wander alone)

Thanks for the feedback bro/sis...
Could you also review the second one(I believe that was only for the first, am i right?)?

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

I realise the benefits of an XL engine - but it means any destruction of a side torso takes you out of the fight - and some chassis have massive side torsos which can be hit easily from the front and the side and have no arms to absorb the damage - making side torso loss very common. The Stalker is one of them. An XL engine in an STK will reduce your average lifespan in a game.

It's OK committing to sticking with your team - but they also need to stick with you - and that's not necessarily easy or guaranteed in a PUG.

You are right - my feedback was for the first design. Here's some additional for the second one:

• The small laser is doing nothing effective - get rid of it.
  
• Pairing Streaks with normal SRMs is unusual and I'm not sure how effective it will be. I would either do one or the other and try and harmonise reload/cycle times and method of firing. Either 4xSSRM2s or 4xSRM4s?
  
• Your 'Mech will overheat badly, perhaps not surprising as a PPC boat - it may require more heat sinks - which may be better without Endo Steel.
  
• Drop the TAG. You are carrying nothing that takes advantage of it.
  
• I would: drop TAG, SL - change SRM6s to SSRM2s, keep 2 tonnes of SSRM ammo. Change ERPPCs to PPC, drop leg armour to 65, remove endo steel, move AMS ammo to cockpit and CT (or legs), add 3 more DHS. Still not happy with the 300XL engine - but that's your choice. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...265c87b0b693205

You may be interested in heading for www.mechspecs.com and having a look at the suggested builds there. You can also get some good feedback from people who love to tinker with 'Mech loadouts.

[The Basilisk]

First I like to welcome you to the Mechwarrior / Battletech community.

While I'm a Stalker fan myself my strong advise would be NOT TO PLAY an Assault Mech as NEWBY player.
I see it happening far to often when a apparently inexperienced assault mech player is torn appart by couple of smaler Mechs while concentrating on blazing away towards a third party.

Basicaly an Assault is a LARGE target. And an incredible large loss towards the own team.
Especially if there are only one or two Assaults on each team. Therefore the Assault will be the main target for most pilots.
The main key to piloting an Assault Mech is battlefield awareness and this comes through experience.
Master at least a heavy or medium support chassis before trying an Assault.

[Calon]

Howdy,

I believe that the 5S is wasted as a LRM boat. If you wanted to have the 2xAMS, 6xMLas and 4xSRM6, get it. Otherwise go for the 3H. This is what I like to do with it.

STK-3H

And for PPCs get a 3F. Better torso twist.

Oh yeah, It is tough to start off in an assault. I would also suggest getting a light first.

Edited by Calon, 01 July 2013 - 02:00 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

Wow. I agree the 3H is a better missile platform - and generally, the 3F is better at most things than the 5S, but advice to pilot a medium or light because it's easier than an assault for a new player? That's not what I have found at all. I started with a Stalker - and found it incredibly easy to work out what was going on.

Yes - assaults, and particularly Stalkers are vulnerable to light 'Mechs. But the survivability and power of an assault outweighs positioning mistakes - the additional damage output rewards you in C-Bills - live or die. Trying to farm C-Bills as a new player in a light 'Mech is a difficult and slow process. Mediums rely so much on movement skills, torso twisting/shield arms, threat assessment, combination play and other factors - it's a complex brew for more experienced players.

My advice would be a Stalker 3F, double heat sinks and no other upgrades, a standard engine (Std 300 or Std 255) and either an out-and-out brawler (6xML, 4xSRM6), mid-range DPS engine (4xLL) or, if you have to, an nxPPC build (4<n<6). It's a simple, strong and cheap platform to farm C-Bills and then build up a 'Mech stable from there.

(edit...)

Oh - and teamspeak - and a regular team.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 01 July 2013 - 03:00 AM.

[scJazz]

1 ) AMS ammo goes in the head because of the extreme volatility.
2 ) If you are going to load a lot of ammo in a mech be aware of the ammo usage pattern which is...Head, CT, RT, LT, LA, RA, LL, RL. Symmetry is nice but placing the ammo in such a way that late in the game you don't have any in exposed areas is better

http://mwomercs.com/...mmo-being-used/

3 ) Using XL Engines in a Stalker is a very bad plan. They have enormous R/LT.

http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/

4 ) Remember Streaks will not fire at all unless they have a lock so no "wasted" ammo. I use 2 tons for 4 SSRM2s myself and rarely run out (25 salvos)
5 ) 2 Medium Lasers doesn't constitute point defense against anything.
6 ) New pilots really really really shouldn't gimp themselves or their team by starting off in Assaults.
7 ) I see you put TAG on your LRMBoat... this is good. Except now you are going to be exposed for the entire missile launch cycle plus flight time. Use your TAG carefully!
8 ) Your Arms have Missile Doors which will add half a second to the launch cycle unless you keep them open. Remember this fact.
9 ) Because of the tube count and the launchers you used the launch cycle is going to be very long. Group fired 1.5 seconds which will send up a horribly unfocused missile cloud which is kind of OK if your aiming at a light but very bad if your aiming at anything else. Chain fired launch cycle would be around 5 seconds.

There are better uses for a new pilots time and money than Stalkers... think about it.

[Blalok]

scJazz, on 01 July 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

8 ) Your Arms have Missile Doors which will add half a second to the launch cycle unless you keep them open. Remember this fact.

btw: the key for opening doors is '/', and there are (hard-to-read) indicator lights on the windowframe (yellow=closed, green=open, red=damaged). While doors are open, you suffer a minor damage penalty.

[Just wanna play]

scJazz, on 01 July 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

1 ) AMS ammo goes in the head because of the extreme volatility.

huh?? does it have higher chance to explode or something? either way id much rather take the 24 damage from ams ammo blowing up then the 190ish dmg from lrm ammo blowing up

[scJazz]

Just wanna play, on 01 July 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

huh?? does it have higher chance to explode or something? either way id much rather take the 24 damage from ams ammo blowing up then the 190ish dmg from lrm ammo blowing up

I'm just going by what Koniving said... argue the point with him. Every time I try I end up being wrong

[Just wanna play]

scJazz, on 01 July 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

I'm just going by what Koniving said... argue the point with him. Every time I try I end up being wrong

well pfft so he didn't even actually tell you what makes it volatile, just said it is??

[Ningyo]

Ammo in the head is there because it is near impossible for it to explode, your head has 15 internal structure, and ammo has 10 health plus there are 5 other critical slots (filled with cockpit and life support type things) to spread the critical damage.) So before it explodes your head will be vaporized anyway. The second place you should put Ammo is either your legs, or an arm that is difficult to hit (cicada, jaggermech, blackjack) Really just play 20+ games and find what part of your mech almost never gets destroyed and put your ammo there.


On the Stalker in general I cannot recommend you using it as a first mech. The problem is it has a very very horrible turning speed. This may not sound that bad, but at Low to medium ELO you have lots of decent light pilots that will be able to stay behind you no matter how you turn. Once you get all your elite skills (this doubles all basic skill effects) then this is no longer a huge issue, this requires you to have 3 Stalkers though. At higher skill level your teammates will be better at assisting you on lights, and fewer enemies will be in lights since they get killed more easily at those skill levels, so the stalker is a better mech there.


As to the 5S specifically if you are going to use it put on 2xAMS otherwise use the 3-F (this can rotate its torso further)
on your first build I would change it to this STK-5S however I cannot recommend the stalker as a pure missile boat, it just has too many problems like tube counts and unless you fit in your 6ML has no advantages.

on your second build I would go: STK-5S until you get your elite skill to get the added heat dissipation I think that the 2 ER + 2 PPC will run too hot for you, if you do go with it put both ERPPC on a single arm for firing around corners. I would not go with streaks because you will find you cannot turn fast enough to keep a lock on a light mech, That said going with all 4 being streaks might scare better light pilots so they never engage you, but a mixed SSRM/SRM loadout tends to not work well, go with one or the other.

IF you want to go with a Stalker what I would suggest is:
STK-5M 5xLRM5, 3xERPPC Although again switching to a 250ish standard engine may be preferable, it depends on how much the added speed helps you, because you do lose some survivability.

[Skydrive]

I agree that that stalker variant may not be the best LRM platform due to the amount of tubes. I do however like your second loadout when it comes to the varied weapons. The missles able to run cooler then the PPC's, with the streaks able to do some good damage against light mechs. The use of tag means you can get a lock on ECM mechs for your streaks so long as you are not too close to the mech. I am uncertain if the small laser is good, I mean good for its low heat and tonnage, but your not exactly fast enough to make the best use of them, nor possess enough (favourite part about small lasers is possibly how they have a better chance of critically hitting and destroying gauss rifles and ECM due to doing as much damage as said items health and a faster cooldown then medium lasers).
If you want to use this variant for LRMs, might I suggest you compromise between the two. Lower the LRM count. Having an LRM 15 in a 6 tube launcher means that with the cooldown, your probably firing as many LRMs in one click as an LRM 5 in 3 clicks. Increase the non LRM firepower. Maybe having only 2 LRMs, being either 2 LRM20s or 2 LRM10s, and keep SRM6's or SRM4s in the sides.

EDIT: Made up a build using that STK-5S variant. Same 300 XL engine and armour values. Has two medium lasers in each arm and one in the right torso for a total of 5 medium lasers. Tag in the left torso. There is an ALRM10 in each arm (each arm fires all 10 for a 20 salvo) with 7 tons of ammo. For short range, comes with one ASRM6 in the right torso and one ASRM4 in the left torso with 2 tons of ammo. When both SRMs are fired at the same time, thats a total of 10 short range missles, meaning they can be used 20 times without running dry. Possesses dual AMS with 2 tons of ammo, and BAP.
This makes it a mech that is able to give out inderect fire support, and enough firepower to fend off lights and bigger mechs, so long as you can hit them. Actually there are pilots that would probably not want to deal with you before going after someone that looks like an easier target. Its put at a 32% heat efficiency with 16 DHSs, so some heat management would be required, but should be able to do well.

Edited by Skydrive, 01 July 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[TimonPumba-PRIME]

Thanks again, everyone.

I just watched this vids of stalkers some time ago and damn, they're blowing enemies to oblivion! (well i guess they're experts) So i decided to get one myself. I am even using that Atlas trial mech ever since my first battle to have a "feel" of the assaults. I think I'm ok with their speed and vulnerability.

I checked a picture of a stalker again. Aww, the sides are really exposed. Guess I should just get my hands on an STD engine. Is the missile tubes really a problem??? (I mean, those several missile salvos looks like Armageddon!)

I noticed that torso rotation was also mentioned? What does it mean? Is it how far I can look to my sides with my legs steady? or is it how fast I look sidewards??? If it's the former, I'll manage. I would just crack my F key in battles...

Lastly, how far should I be from an ECM-equipped mech for my tag to work? I only know its range.
Looking forward to some answers. TY

Edited by calcuLUST, 01 July 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Splinters]

Your LRM boat is functional but yes you will be open to lots of pain if any brawler gets close to you. As for your PPC build, just to few heat sinks for 2 ER's and 2 regular PPC's. There is a +x heat penalty now if you fire more than 3 similar weapons at once (but I'm unclear on ER-PPC's being counted in the same bin as PPC's).

If your looking for a good stalker build, try my Stalker 3F. 4 PPC's give you plenty of scary long-range punch, SSRM's and ML's in case someone closes in on you. Just make sure you don't try and fire the PPC's with all the short range weapons at once. Otherwise, you'll overheat in a few seconds. I would recommend the seismic module first, and when you get your 2nd slot, 9x9 coolant shot to go with it.

For weapons groups I would put 2 PPC groupings (left and right), SSRMs on a 3rd, and ML's on the 4th.

Hope this helps!

-S

Edited by Splinters, 01 July 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Just wanna play]

Ningyo, on 01 July 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Ammo in the head is there because it is near impossible for it to explode, your head has 15 internal structure, and ammo has 10 health plus there are 5 other critical slots (filled with cockpit and life support type things) to spread the critical damage.) So before it explodes your head will be vaporized anyway. The second place you should put Ammo is either your legs, or an arm that is difficult to hit (cicada, jaggermech, blackjack) Really just play 20+ games and find what part of your mech almost never gets destroyed and put your ammo there.

remember to put the ammo less likely to be used and highly dangerous ammo (damage wise) in the better protected areas (like head) while less powerful and/or more likely to be used up goes in less protected areas, and internals structures dont take crits

i personally recommend long range munitions like lrms be in the less protected area if necessary because you will be using before you even enter the fight while srm ammo and certain ac ammo goes in better protected areas because it will require you to be close up to start using up the ammo
also guass ammo doesnt explode so its best to put it in same limb as the rifle to help avoid rifle from getting hit
ams ammo needs less protection of all ammo imo because all 1000 rounds only do 24 damage and im sure it will be one of the first types of ammo fired

[Johnny Reb]

Come tomorrow with the terrain changes, If you want to run an effective lrm boat I think some JJ are needed. Personally, I find the Highlander 733 to be the best assault Lrm platform, even more so tomorrow.

[Just wanna play]

Johnny Reb, on 01 July 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Come tomorrow with the terrain changes, If you want to run an effective lrm boat I think some JJ are needed. Personally, I find the Highlander 733 to be the best assault Lrm platform, even more so tomorrow.

huh? are you saying after the patch it will be hard to get over top of hills to fire your.. um... payload???? just aim your launchers in the direction needed to clear obstacles, not only helps clear obstacles vertically but also horizontally, of course no lrm boating assault mech can match the awesome in this aspect (or in launcher tube count either) highlanders can do it to some extent but having wimpy left and right motion in arms as well as only 2 launchers on the torsos make it less effective at it, and stalkers can only aim 10 launcher tubes over hills and it can only aim up and down in comparison to the target so its not quite as flexible as mechs with torso mounted lrms and actual arms that can even cause lrms to curve around buildings directly in front of them

yes hgn does have 9 more usable tons EMPTY but that gap quickly closes as you actually put in engines and such, when both go 47 kph and the only thing in the mech is the engine the hgn only has 5 more usable tons and at 57kph the gap is only 2 tons while at 58kph the difference is only 1 ton, sure you have more MAX armor possible but thats about it aside from more internal health

Edited by Just wanna play, 01 July 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

I am saying JJ lrm mechs will be able to get better positions than non JJ mechs and hence that better position to fire the lrms means alot. Position is the most important thing using lrms.