51 replies to this topic

[Seddrik]

Lol... PGI gimped movement so yeah, poptarts are coming back. They didn't completely eliminate poptarts with the JJ shake & reticule motion (and they shouldn't), they just introduced a motion sickeness element & inaccuracy element when thrusting. They have since reduced (gratefully) the motion sickness but retained an inaccuracy in the shot while thrusting. This still doesn't totally eliminate poptarting (and it shouldn't), but it does hinder it to a fair degree. They could have solved poptarting PPCs by just tweaking boated PPCs... but they didn't. So PPCs boating is still dominant. Instead they tweaked JJs, they tweaked this, that, the other. Everything but the real issue... boated PPCs.

So why are people poptarting more again? The movement gimp obviously... and what else could be expected when movement is so rediculously hindered now? Yeah yeah, some will still love it even when they will now expire of old age trying to cross the map, but the rest of us find it frustrating to maneuver, to flank, to ambush, or do many many things we used to be able to enjoy tactically in this game. Now its more of a TRENCH WARRIOR online than a Mech Warrior game. So yea, poptarts are coming back because it is more effective than the remaining options they have left us. It is combat... we will use what works. Some of us enjoy winning. What about you?

I actually used a lot of different weapons and mechs BEFORE the movement gimp. Now? Now that you can't get close without getting hung up, channeled into a death trap trench, etc? Psh yeah, I'm gonna stack what I have to use at long range rather than get gunned down trying to get within short range. PPCs on lights, unlike other mechs now, can still move with, get up to higher ground, flank, reposition quickly and pop you till you go boom. So whats not to like about PPCs on lights? : P


Side note: Some of us do get motion sickness from games. Every time I "fall" any long distance in a game my stomach lurches...

And as for the current setup making it more fair/easier to shoot poptarters... eh not really. I didn't have a problem shooting poptarts before... they only jumped straight up in the air. It was getting one shot by multiple PPCs that made poptarting a real issue... and remains the real issue. I predict that some will actually start getting smarter about poptarting...or camping the trench choke points with their ppc boats. There are ways to poptart that make you less of a target... but I won't help anyone out by sharing those tips here. Maybe you will figure it out when I blast you a few times... lol.

Edited by Seddrik, 05 July 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Av4tar]

Silverlance, on 03 July 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

You don't get "motion sickness" from a game. And if you do, you shouldn't be playing it in the first place. And for those players who still want to boat. Triple or quadruple their heat penalty and damage. That will stop all of this nonsense once and for all.

And for ppl who cant fight ppl with different fighting style and whine in forum, “you shouldn't be playing it in the first place“ seriously.

[Petra Chistu]

So many varying opinions. I both agree and disagree with OP.

Why I agree is simple: All the boating and meta designed builds in the game are killing all the fun. It's a drain and something needs to be done about it. Keep in mind people that the Gauss Rifle needed so much energy to fire that a mech carrying a Gauss Rifle would shut down momentarily after firing it. I think that would be a GREAT mechanic to add into the game. Want to carry 3+ Plasma Pulse Cannons and a Gauss? Go for it. But if you fire your PPCs and your Gauss, you're going to overheat and shut down in one volley and cause massive amounts of internal damage to your armor, engine and structure. That would eliminate the meta overnight and force players into a diverse, even build that would make the games fun for everyone. Not just the die hard OMFGIWANNAWINNOWSCREWFAIRFIGHTING.

Why I don't agree is simple: Play styles vary. Example, Modern Warfare. You have rushers, you have snipers and you have the dudes who brawl it out with pistols, shotties and SMGs. Poptarts are fine I guess, pretty weak to me, but if someone wants to jump high into the air just to get a shot. Here's a tip: Fire first. Mechs have jump jets for a reason and it's to get where they normally can't, and avoid fire. So don't knock the play styles. Knock the implementation of weaponry and the rules behind how they can be used.

I for one as a new player am getting sick and friggin tired of sharks with ten laser beams on their heads. Weapon type limitations and TT rules attached to them would make this game what it should be. Boat what you want, but your penalty is five times as much as a player who has a diversified build.

Another post, brought to you by your friendly local neighborhood nooberella.

[LastPaladin]

Petra Chistu, on 05 July 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Weapon type limitations and TT rules attached to them would make this game what it should be. Boat what you want, but your penalty is five times as much as a player who has a diversified build.

Asking for something closer to TT rules, then wanting a penalty for boating that is nowhere in the TT rules in the same breath? I mean, be a little consistent at least.

The game mechanics are too different from TT, so we have to have different rules, and that is precisely why boating is a problem in MWO when it wasn't in TT. Nobody in TT got a big advantage firing 4 PPCs over another set of weapons, because it was all random dice rolls to see whether you hit and what section. It's only cuz this is a FPS that direct fire weapons have a built-in advantage, and of course people will choose the best direct fire weapons they can carry, statwise, if the devs allow it.

You're right that it is the implementation of weaponry that needs to be addressed, instead of trying to gimp playstyles individually. Focusing on playstyles is a losing battle, because devs will always be one step behind whatever the playerbase figures out is the most effective playstyle. They really just need to focus on balancing the weapons and then see what tweaks need to be made to other game mechanics, if weapon balancing isn't enough to allow a diversity of playstyles to be effective. First things first!

[FREDtheDEAD]

They're going to implement a system where firing more than a specified number of the same weapon (depending on mech and weapon) at once (within a half second) will generate a LOT of extra heat. Command chair post, I think.

That, with heat damage, should stop the alpha strike boaters.

EDIT: http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/

Edited by Xajorkith, 05 July 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[Shaddie]

I love the pop-tarters. It's fun to see one pop up.. wait a sec, they generally pop up again in the same spot if they don't get hit, then blamo.

My point is, people are going to play the way they want. They are going to arm their mechs with what is available to them. You can either take on the challenge to try to figure out a way to counter the <pop-tart, PPC boat, LRM boat, bad paint job boat>.... or you can complain...

I ran my old K2 x2 Gauss build tonight (and x2 medium lasers).... was having fun taking apart an Atlas and he just stops and goes off about noob-tubing... I mean really, I just laughed and blew off his other arm while he was typing. Again - learn to counter the variety of threats that MWO can offer, or don't....

rant over - I love this game - hopefully they'll keep making it more challenging just to drive the mechs!

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Pop tarts have to wait for the random reticule shake to stop and thus the random divergence, removing the benefit of minimal exposure from the previous version.

If anyone on the other team is paying attention, your going to get smashed on the way down.

Edited by DV McKenna, 06 July 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[Sasha Volkova]

FUN FACT : I personally never popturded pre the JJ-shake-fix. NEVER! and it was purely out of a (stupid and misplaced) sense of ¨honor¨ and the fact that people called it OP.
However, after the JJ-shake came in for the first time and everyone claimed popturding was impossible and that JJ's made you sick, I started running both a Highlander P with 4 PPC's and a Quickdraw with 2-4 PPC's ONLY to poptart in them.
The result was that I found it amazingly simple, even with the (in my opp) awesome shake we had in the beginning.

But it was considered ¨hard¨ by the community to snipe while jumping.
It gave a sort of accomplishment - even though I felt sooo dirty for doing it.

Now however with the reduced shake and JJ's actually making you alot more maneuverable (like they should) it now makes pop le turding super easy again xD I literally caught myself doing it all the time and even firring my JJ's in the middle of brawls just to become even harder to hit and to jump over assaults to force them either to face me or my team and show their soft backs (since most people run almost no back armour anymore due to snipers) resulting in a quick death for the enemy and no dangers to me since I could just JJ my ******* of there again while still firring like a yank in vietnam.

In closing what I am trying to say is that the reduced shake is making it easy to jump and shoot again.

DV McKenna, on 06 July 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Pop tarts have to wait for the random reticule shake to stop and thus the random divergence, removing the benefit of minimal exposure from the previous version.

If anyone on the other team is paying attention, your going to get smashed on the way down.

Suuuure~
Except only unskilled pops will go straight up and down.
Most pop le turds with just an ounce of skill will move before jumping - resulting in a jump arc instead of just up and down.
And due to the awful netcode you will have issues getting hits on something jumping in an arc since you will need to lead the target and thus resulting in a much greater chance of not hitting due to HSR not working as it should :b

Edited by 0okami, 06 July 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

0okami, on 06 July 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

FUN FACT : I personally never popturded pre the JJ-shake-fix. NEVER! and it was purely out of a (stupid and misplaced) sense of ¨honor¨ and the fact that people called it OP.
However, after the JJ-shake came in for the first time and everyone claimed popturding was impossible and that JJ's made you sick, I started running both a Highlander P with 4 PPC's and a Quickdraw with 2-4 PPC's ONLY to poptart in them.
The result was that I found it amazingly simple, even with the (in my opp) awesome shake we had in the beginning.

But it was considered ¨hard¨ by the community to snipe while jumping.
It gave a sort of accomplishment - even though I felt sooo dirty for doing it.

Now however with the reduced shake and JJ's actually making you alot more maneuverable (like they should) it now makes pop le turding super easy again xD I literally caught myself doing it all the time and even firring my JJ's in the middle of brawls just to become even harder to hit and to jump over assaults to force them either to face me or my team and show their soft backs (since most people run almost no back armour anymore due to snipers) resulting in a quick death for the enemy and no dangers to me since I could just JJ my ******* of there again while still firring like a yank in vietnam.

In closing what I am trying to say is that the reduced shake is making it easy to jump and shoot again.



Suuuure~
Except only unskilled pops will go straight up and down.
Most pop le turds with just an ounce of skill will move before jumping - resulting in a jump arc instead of just up and down.
And due to the awful netcode you will have issues getting hits on something jumping in an arc since you will need to lead the target and thus resulting in a much greater chance of not hitting due to HSR not working as it should :b

The arc on the landing, is incredibly straight...and thus easy to hit.

Practice makes perfect.

[Sasha Volkova]

DV McKenna, on 06 July 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

The arc on the landing, is incredibly straight...and thus easy to hit.

Practice makes perfect.

Oh dont get me wrong, I have no issues hitting things xD
The fact just remains that HSR will sometimes (very often in fact) not register the hits.
Fact just is you cant ¨practice¨ a bug in the code.

Edited by 0okami, 06 July 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[El Bandito]

Milt, on 03 July 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

lets remove an option from the game, instead of fixing the underlying problem. < DUMB. the reticule shake has made it a little more different to poptart, like TT. now the heat penalty is trying to fix the high heat high alpha problem. the devs did it right this time. dont over nerf something and drive players away. gradually balance it until it is balanced. the next patch/hotfix will most likely increase the penalty for high heat which in turn will reduce the number of poptart / hillhumping high alpha snipers. ask for balance instead of removal of a playstyle. the more viable means to play this game mean more ppl will play this game. if you are hoping to have a little clique of players playing, make your own game.

I firmly believe nerfing poptarts to hell will actually increase player base. Same with boating heavy weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[Jenovah]

See, I'm new here.. .but I have seen the "poptarts." I have a very simple solution to them- I enjoy running lights and what I call support-by-fire mechs (LRM/SRM mechs). See, I had someone poptarting me... I was in my Light.. and OMG! instead of cramming it with every weapon possible to 1v1 people, I used a hardpoint for (!) a TAG. Now, I used a SSRM instead of a NARC- shameful, I know, but hey, it is what it is... Anyways, I told my team what was up, ran out, the poptart forgot about me after 2 misses and I got around him in my shiny new-just-purchased Raven 3L. I tagged him.. All of a sudden the CLOUDS opened and from above, down rained death and destruction and my name was shouted in reverence and terrified whispers... I guess what I'm saying is- teamwork maybe? Communicate maybe? Outthink the poptart maybe? Don't let that Lonewolf tag go to your head about how you have to fight all the other big bad mechs all alone. Just my opinion tho.